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Northern Ireland 2125?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Irish History


    You are a very confused person. See my posts in previous page and learn.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Irish History


    missing quote



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Irish History


    Remind us Irish people again which country invaded and occupies a part of which country???



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Irish History


    Hard to believe that some of the comments here are made by actual Irish people.

    Prime examples of the damaged psyche of the colonised Irish mind mirroring the desires of the English coloniser.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ah jaysus, we’re back to “they were the products of their environment” blameless nonsense again. I’ve said before i’m constitutionally neutral on whether there should be a UI or not. Right now i’d vote no in order to stop your dangerous narrative from let near any reputable history of the period.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Irish History


    Imagine if a Ukrainian said he was constitutionally neutral on whether Ukraine should be reunified.

    He's be called a traitor. What are you???

    When did you first start championing the British narrative about the history of England's/Britain's invasion and occupation of Ireland?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    your dangerous narrative

    Go on and sum up what you think is dangerous?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How about continuing to insist that paramilitary organisations were in involved in “combat” when i pointed out to you that the majority of certain groups killings were civilians?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,438 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    My point is that its 'protestant' ethos is largely bumkin.

    There are more Catholic kids in that school than COI kids. It would be the same with similar schools in Cork, like Aston and Midelton College. Maybe it was that way over 100 years ago, but it's certainly not that way now and has been that way for decades.

    People would go to those schools because religion was largely absent from the circiulium, and the catholic kids and the parents who didn't want more indoctrination sent their kids to the COI schools to get away from religion, its ceremonies and the like.

    Now with the advent of Educate Together, maybe that need has passed, but believe me, it was there for decades.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Still ignoring the written declaration of war on the IRA and 'anyone deemed to be a sympathiser/helper'?

    Known IRA men will be executed mercilessly and without hesitation. Less extreme measures will be taken against anyone sheltering or helping them, but if they persist in giving them aid, then more extreme methods will be adopted.

    By 1970 they were 'removing republican elements' in areas of Belfast and they killed IRA members. All promised above.

    They also killed many innocent civilians. The two are not mutually exclusive.

    Anything else?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Irish History


    Like in 1916 when the foreign occupying British army killed more civilians in Dublin than they did Irish Volunteers???



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It is Norton himself who says he went to a 'Protestant school'.

    And he was amazed to see openly gay people in the modern school, which means to me he wouldn't have seen them back then because it was not alright to be gay in a Protestant school.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes Francie they killed many civilians, in the UVFs case 84%. In your blameless world they were still involved in “combat”. As i said yesterday, making excuses for Republican AND loyalist terrorism……



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Irish History




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    …And the British killed civilians.

    They ALL killed civilians. All of it inexcusable and wrong.

    So where does it get us if we want to avoid it happening again?

    You make sure that the circumstances in which violence will inevitably break out are not allowed to develop.

    To understand what those circumstances were, you have to decide who had the power to prevent them arising.
    In our case that was the British government who allowed a society to evolve and function as a sectarian bigoted and discriminatory society.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,438 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    You missed my point again.

    It was not OK to be gay in school ANYWHERE in Ireland in the 70's and 80's.

    I already mentioned that Bandon Grammar would be one of the more tolerant and open-minded schools in Cork today. Hence, his quote about pupils being openly gay today. Dare I say there would be few schools like that in Ireland, even today.

    The religious ethos of the school is being overblown and made into another bigoted sectarian talking point by your good self.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    Germany fought under the rules of the Geneva convention in world war 2 U say-

    Nazi Germany- that country-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Again, HE said it was a Protestant school in his day and that he didn't get to play or meet with Catholics, if there were Catholics in the school back then he clearly was not mixing with them by his own admission, not mine.

    That was the point I was making to blanch, who was claiming there was NO CHANGE in Ireland with respect to treatment of Protestants.
    Thanks to you we know that they are happily going to protestant schools and mixing with whatever protestants that are there.

    That's great news and something I was trying to explain to blanch, that intermingling and schooling is happening all over the country, even here in a border town.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,438 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Again, HE said it was a Protestant school in his day and that he didn't get to play or meet with Catholics, if there were Catholics in the school back then he clearly was not mixing with them by his own admission, not mine.

    Where did he ever mention he didn't mix with Catholics in school? It would be a pretty hard thing to do given the majority of the school were Catholic. Did you just make that bit up?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    “…And the British killed civilians. 

    They ALL killed civilians. All of it inexcusable and wrong.”

    Whataboutery (yet again).

    “In our case that was the British government who allowed a society to evolve and function as a sectarian bigoted and discriminatory society.”

    Old Stormont gone 1972. It was the symbol of THAT sectarianism & bigotry. So you’ll have to come with a new justification as to why the IRA should have kept going.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,786 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Have you a quote for where he says it was a "Protestant school"? He regularly attends award days and special events back at his old school, and is on record as saying the west Cork school had left a lasting imprint on him and once said he was "very honoured" to return to help launch a book about the school's history. So he is obviously very proud of the school, which has a Protestant ethos but has a lot of catholic students, as well as some Protestant students of course.

    You are trying to nit-pick and attack him. At an awards ceremony since he became famous, he saw openly gay students at school there which he was surprised at. The average Protestant school in Ireland have have been more liberal and open minded than the average Catholic ethos school in Ireland when he was a student in the 1970s, but in Irish schools in those days I think it fair to say nobody was openly gay. You forget that Homosexuality was not decriminalized in Ireland until June 24, 1993, with the passage of the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993. This legislation repealed laws that criminalized same-sex sexual acts between adult males, effectively ending the criminalization of homosexuality.

    The point was he said he felt isolated growing up as a Protestant in those days, and the Protestant community was under siege. He said his religion did leave him largely friendless when he was growing up in Bandon in Co Cork. He said: "If you married outside of the faith there was real pressure for the kids to be brought up Catholic and priests would make people convert." 

    Of course Irish society has changed a bit since Graham Norton was young.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    He didn't say it in so many words, but he did say that when R, Catholic children found out what school he was going to that was it, he never saw or mixed with them again. He also talked about what was expected of him by his own religion. The same was expected of RC's.

    But in a revealing new interview, the Cork host said his religion did leave him largely friendless when he was growing up in Bandon in Co Cork.

    He said: "I remember when we moved to Bandon for the first time during the summer holidays and it was amazing and I played with all these kids and was invited to birthday parties.

    "It was great and come September there was much excitement about going to school and it was revealed I wasn't going to their school. I never really saw them again. That was the ending. We all recognised that we were different and that's what would happen.

    You had to go to these special Protestant hops and Protestant socials and the idea was you met a nice Protestant girl and had Protestant babies."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,438 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Right so he never said he never played with Catholic kids while at school..

    Glad we cleared that up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Old Stormont gone 1972.

    Do you know why Stormont was prorogued?

    I don't think you do.

    Stormont was abolished not because of it's sectarianism and one party structure, it was abolished because it would not give Westminster control of local law and order - something that frightened the life out of ordinary nationalists and exacerbated the tensions rather than calmed them..

    Out of the frying pan into the fire.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "Do you know why Stormont was prorogued?"

    Now you're trying to shift the goalposts because I never mentioned HOW Stormont was abolished.

    As for Nationalists reaction to its abolition:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/zxbdtcw#zp47s82

    "The Irish Government and the SDLP were delighted. They saw the end of Stormont as providing the opportunity of a new start for Northern Ireland."

    So Francie, give me a new justification for IRA violence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Now you're trying to shift the goalposts because I never mentioned HOW Stormont was abolished.

    You didn't know did you? 😁

    I don't justify violence. I try to understand why it happens.
    I will just say this - try and research why the SDLP became so reviled by the CNR community. The answers you seek are all there.
    Then research how that 'new start' worked out and who destroyed it',



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,786 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You made up the first paragraph. Read the article. The school was mixed in that it had both Catholics and protestants.

    He wrote "I remember when we moved to Bandon for the first time during the summer holidays and it was amazing and I played with all these kids and was invited to birthday parties.

    "It was great and come September there was much excitement about going to school and it was revealed I wasn't going to their school. I never really saw them again. That was the ending. We all recognised that we were different and that's what would happen."

    The implication was that he was not invited to birthday parties of local kids after the summer holidays ended and they found out what school he was going to be going to. He spoke of his isolation in Cork and the feeling that the Protestant community was under siege.

    Now be honest and admit you made up the first paragraph.

    Oh, and blanch never afaik said what you claimed he said: he actually wrote in post 1160: "

    "And nobody was claiming that all young Southern Protestants were excluded by their peers growing up in the same way.

    Certainly enough of them did though that they left this country behind in the same manner that Graham Norton did, and that was a loss to this country."



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "You didn't know did you? 😁"

    I do actually.

    "I don't justify violence. I try to understand why it happens."

    Constructive ambiguity or is it plausible deniability?

    "I will just say this - try and research why the SDLP became so reviled by the CNR community. The answers you seek are all there. Then research how that 'new start' worked out and who destroyed it',"

    Yes, the SDLP did decline once the IRA quit, but reviled by the CNR community while the IRA campaign was ongoing?

    How many MPs had Sinn Fein after the 1992 UK general election? Their vote fell so it's reasonable to assume the IRA campaign was stinking out the place by then and that was putting people off, not to mention their pitiful 1.6% in the Southern election later that year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    He was under the same pressure to meet and marry within his own community that Catholics were.

    The proclamations that it is not a Protestant school are cute but the evidence says it is being run under the auspices of The Incorporated Society for Promoting Protestant Schools in Ireland, also known as the Charter Schools.

    How many Catholics attended in Norton's day I don't know.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Fairly typical.
    You are asked about the SDLP and you want to talk about SF all of a sudden.

    Why can't you address the decline of the SDLP (begun well before the IRA ‘surrendered’ BTW) as asked?

    Post edited by FrancieBrady on


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