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Northern Ireland 2125?

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ”inevitable” ??

    And you don’t do republican revisionism. Right…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,263 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yes, it was inevitable that the one party bigoted government in NI would use violence and the security forces to put protestors back in their place. And it was inevitable that there would be a reaction to that.
    It has happened since the dawn of time all over the world.Plenty of examples to prove this rule:
    Oppress for long enough and you will inevitably spark a reaction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,762 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Other parties stood for election but they did not get the number of votes to form a government. Poor protestants had the same vote as poor catholics. NI catholics were not MOPEs. A violent reaction was not necessary. The civil rights marches were hijacked by those who wanted a U.I. : the Republicans in the failed IRA border campaign 1956-1962 , which claimed more than a few lives, did not engage in violence for civil rights but for their ideal of U.I.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    and I did not mean to be confrontational I guess the word naive was not the best choice of word.
    I may have overplayed the point that he would not say he was Irish, because if he was he would say he was British and not say anything additional. I guess if you him he would have gone on to tell you how he was born in Donegal, et cetera. You still didn’t address my point whether you feel it is strange that Jerry Adams doesn’t acknowledge has Britishness.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Michelle O’Neill: “there was no alternative to violence”.

    Franciebrady: “inevitable conflict/war that happened”.

    Don’t tell me you and her aren’t both singing off the same republican hymnsheet. And spare me the “Gerryadamsology” type response “I dont support the IRA, but….” Thanks.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    do you want me to post you a picture of my passport. You are talking absolute nonsense. I actually feel embarrassed for you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,263 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So the B-Specials and RUC just picked out and beat those who 'wanted a UI' on the marches? The British Army picked out the UIers in Derry and shot them dead?

    Removing British rule which was shoring up the bigoted government was seen as the way to get civil rights.
    When the British eventually removed the Unionist Veto then and only then could the genie be put back in the box.

    According to the man at the head of those 'civil rights' marches, that veto was 'at the heart of the problem' in NI

    The fundamental change that has taken place as a result of the Anglo-Irish Agreement is a change that is deeply and fully understood by every Unionist.

    What it means is that their exclusive hold on power has gone and is not coming back.

    The power of veto on British policy which they have always had, and which goes to the heart of our problem here, has gone and is not coming back.

    The loss is uncomfortable for their leaders, for while they held that privileged position they never had to be politicians or exercise the art of politics, which is the art of representing one’s own view while treating others with fairness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,220 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    I very directly addressed it, Downcow. I said, "Given the GFA which I signed up to, I recognise that people from NI can be British OR Irish OR both, and I respect their choices as such."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    you are simply wrong.
    We get pride of place as the only region actually named specifically on the British passport. If Carlsberg done passports!

    IMG_0377.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,263 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I am a republican. I never claimed to be anything else.

    I never supported the IRA or violence.

    I do understand why they all (The British, The Unionist Government, The IRA, The UVVF etc etc) felt violence was the answer. Same as I understand why The Germans went to war etc.

    If you oppress and kill people for long enough some of them will rise up and do the same to you.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    …and my British health card

    IMG_0378.jpeg

    you can request one without the flag if you wish



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,762 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    The vast vast majority of B-Specials or RUC or British army never shot at anybody or beat them up. Most did not engage in violence but resisted it. Some were victims of it, and had colleagues who died from violence, long before that riot in Derry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,762 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    If you never supported the IRA, why do you not condemn their atrocities, like Bloody Friday, Enniskillen, Le Mons etc?

    Sorry, I forgot like Gerry Adams you do not condemn things. Unless they are British or Unionist of course.

    I think during the 1956 to 62 border campaign it was the IRA who rose up and done the killing, not the other way around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    95%+ of kids dont go to church regularly in Ireland thesedays. Ireland now has lots of non Christians religions living here.

    Apart from working class areas in the north there no prejudice regarding being Protestant or Catholic.

    You just want to belive there is predjudice against protestant kids thesedays as another excuses to keep partition going as to claim protestants will be prejudiced in a UI.

    Also if people are inferring a falling percentage as being down to predjudice. Then predjudice died out 35 years ago in the ROI as that when the protestant population stopped declining.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ”Same as I understand why The Germans went to war etc.”

    Excuse me, what?????

    Are you talking about 1914 or 1939?

    Francie, you can waffle on to your hearts content about the republican version of history, but as SF was only getting 2% in Southern elections when they entered electoral politics in the late 80s, when the IRA was also still active, its an analysis that was (and is still is IMO) rejected by the vast majority of people down here.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,263 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I am saying I understand why people felt compelled to go to war or conflict.

    Anyone with an interest in history does this.
    If you go to a discussion on why Germany went to war, you will need an understanding of why they did,

    That is not 'support' for Germany.

    This is not rocket science.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ah but that isn’t the case though is it. You claimed it was “inevitable”. Trying to “understand” something does not mean going on to say “i’m right”, or “you don’t what know you’re talking about”, or “go read a book” etc. By all means put your theory out there, but don’t be getting upset when others may disagree.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Wrong. When it comes to geography there is two islands. One is called Britain or Great Britain whos demonym is British and the other is Ireland whos demonym is irish. There is no demonym used of geographical archipelago reffered to as "these islands" or the "british isles"

    The UK is a political phrase not a geographical one. You can say British is the demonym of the UK state but dont try and convince yourself "British" has some permanent geographical demonym to Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    And nobody was claiming that all young Southern Protestants were excluded by their peers growing up in the same way.

    Certainly enough of them did though that they left this country behind in the same manner that Graham Norton did, and that was a loss to this country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,263 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    At all times I am giving 'My Opinion' which is always right according to me.
    If you change My Opinion, I'll let you know.

    If you research oppression and state violence since the dawn of time I am not sure how you can object to the view, that the various revolutions and conflicts that resulted from that, were 'inevitable'.

    I would say a reaction is sure to follow oppression as night is sure to follow day.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Irish History


    That's nonsense.

    If we are to believe man originated in Africa, who was the first man from Africa invading another man's homeland if there was no other man?

    People naturally migrated. It's not always about invasion by armed force to subjugate other people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Now that I have got you to accept that it is an invasion when someone invades another man's homeland, what do you say to those pre-Celtic tribes that were ethnically cleansed out of existence by your beloved Gaels?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Irish History


    So you think the croppy should just have lied down - again?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Conflict in the North wasn't inevitable, that is another example of republican revisionism.

    People like Gerry Adams and others made decisions to kill other people, they did that of their own free will. Maybe they later regretted it and looked for peace (I don't believe that) but that doesn't change the fact that there was nothing inevitable about the original freely taken decision to start killing others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles

    There are more than two islands, and they are collectively known as the British Isles. For political reasons, some don't like to use the name.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sure if the symbol of oppression for Nationalists (the old Stormont regime) was gone in 1972, did it not reveal the oppression of the continuing IRA campaign to attempt to intimidate the Unionist population into a UI?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Irish History


    You are a very confused person.

    1/ Where did I write otherwise? Would you like me to write that - that way you wouldn't be posting nonsense all the time?

    2/ What pre-Celtic tribes?

    3/ Who told you whoever was pre-Celtic were ethnically cleansed?

    4/ "They" are not my beloved Gaels - I am a Gael.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    And where in that link does it say the demonym of the archipelago is British? When it comes to geography British is the demonym of Britain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,263 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Did you just invent that as a symbol to give yourself an argument to cling to?

    Do I need to quote Hume again here as to what 'the heart of the problem was'?
    The Unionist Veto was the issue and the Anglo Irish Agreement officially removed it, which was, in hindsight the beginning of the end of IRA violence.
    Unionists still cling to that veto, want it back and try to invoke it from time to time. The 'satellite to the motherland' chat comes from the same entitlement/suprematist culture - if we can't get our way blah blah blah.

    Republicans who signed up to accepting the will of the majority in the GFA and have abided by that.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ”Did you just invent that as a symbol to give yourself an argument to cling to?”

    Invent?? What do i need to “invent”? As blanch said above the leadership of the PIRA sat down and made a conscious decision to kill other people in order to get their way. What’s next from you? Deny the IRA even existed?



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