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Israel/Palestine Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,689 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Israel is every bit as bad as the Nazis were. They are just not into the millions yet but if they get their way they will be. Israel is a Pariah state. The world's biggest terrorist state at the minute.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    The most likely scenario, and the only one that makes sense, is that Israel are propping up Hamas to use them as a guise to continue their destruction of Gaza. By propping I mean letting them exist / recruit in certain areas.

    It is impossible to believe Israel can be so deadly and concise against foes in other countries, even thousands of miles away, and are incapable of dealing with a militia in an enclave on their border that they have complete control of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,230 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    In the world we live in this outcome isn't likely in the slightest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,230 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    They're both flattened in terms of bombs but the bulldozers stop people living in the ruins themselves with makeshift shelter's etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Khan Younis was flattened by bulldozers a month ago - I posted it here.

    As reported by the BBC and posted here, "heavy digging equipment" has been moved into the outskirts of Gaza City.

    "In one area just south of the Sabra neighbourhood we've identified what appears to be a new Israel Defense Forces (IDF) base surrounded by armoured vehicles and heavy digging equipment. The image above shows the site on 9 August (left) and 19 August (right)."

    Gaza City is about to flattened. There will no ruins - just rubble.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    How do you come to that conclusion?

    Israeli economy in tatters and will be for the foreseeable, civil unrest is building, International community is condemning them daily, Settlers and Govt. Ministers are sanctioned, ICJ will rule on the Gaza Genocide and they continue to murder civilians.

    I'd imagine the outcome suggested is a distinct possibility. And Israeli citizens both in Israel and abroad know it.

    But if you'd like to posit your own interpretation, that would be appreciated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    75 Gazan civilians have been murdered by Israel since Oct 7th 2023.

    Every.Single.Day.

    Genocide 101



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,485 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    This sounds like total bunkum from Netanyahu. He's had numerous opportunities to get the hostages released up until now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I'd be fairly sure it's just noise from him to dampen the criticism a bit. But notable he's still going ahead with the final solution.

    Remember all the posts stating "release the hostages" and Israel will stop the war? Pure bunkum. And everyone knew it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,485 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    It's hogwash - he's had chance after chance to get the hostages out. This is clearly just a stalling tactic or PR stunt to buy himself more time (either that or he attempts to get the hostages out and carries on with the Final Solution in Gaza regardless).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,230 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Can you post the images so people can see. Preferably embedded. Yeah like I said I originally meant Gaza city not the overall GAZA enclave as I'm aware elsewhere has been bulldozed. I believe much of the area outside Gaza city heading towards the border with Israel was also bulldozed and a line down the border towards the Egyptian border and a line across the middle to the sea.

    Just seen your other post. I feel they'll take the economic hit to conclude their "final solution" as you've highlighted. The ICJ isn't recognised by the majority of superpowers in the world and won't be physically able to stop him.

    The biggest reason I don't see it happening is Trump. Having the US president in your pocket for the next 3 years is a huge asset. The next president will probably be Pro Israel too but I doubt as much as Trump.

    The question for me is how much will Israel now take. I can see them going for the northern half of the strip and leaving an area in the south for Gaza to rebuild.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,078 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    I'd say a fair number of people are in pieces in all that rubble. The Israelis will just bulldoze it all into dust. I hope the smell follows them around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I don't believe the "majority of superpowers" ignore the ICJ - none totally ignore it. Some do limit its jurisdiction in internal affairs (US and China). But the issue is that the ICJ cannot issue sanctions - they can only provide rulings/determinations. So, like a dog with a bark, but no teeth.

    The Israel lobby in the US is strong. But in recent weeks, some are seeing the world's public turning against Israel. Some lobbyists are therefore modifying their language - but that's probably just a fig leaf of cover, for now. Perhaps the majority of US politicians are supportive of Israel, but many are not. And Trump has been carful to condemn the starvation and berate Netanyahu - again, probably just words to appease those unsupportive of Israel.

    Israel controls 86% of Gaza. What they will finally take is anyone's guess. Whatever they do take, the next question will be what they do to the Palestinians. Ship them off to Sudan? There'd be a massive outcry. And I'd say Egypt and Lebanon, possibly Jordan will be looking over their shoulders. Other Arab nations will be apoplectic. Turkey too. I've no idea what would happen, but it won't be pleasant. Even if Israel takes half of Gaza - squeezing a population of over 2 million into 40 sq km is just not going to be sustainable. It would sure be a hellhole anyhow.

    Israelis will suck up the economic issues until it really hit their pockets. Likud and the far right coalition parties will then likely be run out of the Knesset. Unless the US bankrolls the State of course. Perhaps then moderates will try and recover whatever they can and beg for forgiveness.

    The key thing to watch will be the ICJ decision. If that goes against Israel, which it should, nothing will ever remove that stain. In time, some may warm to Israel but you can guarantee others will make their lives a misery for ever. And that is regardless of all the above speculation. Israelis and particularly Jews around the world will get a hard time. Some deservedly, others not.

    As for the photos:

    The pictures are those you can swipe across - I can't embed but the site below is not paywalled.

    This Khan Younis as of July:

    This is Gaza City outskirts according to BBC verify (I prefer to link as you then get the full context rather than just an image)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Estimated to be well over 10,000 bodies.

    The smell will go but the stain will follow Israel forever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,230 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Yeah I actually read that French article when it came out. One of the better articles illustrating the destruction.

    "It appears that most of the destruction was done by bulldozers and the like," Haaretz wrote, adding that, in recent months, the Israeli "military has greatly accelerated the pace of destruction in southern Gaza, using private contractors that earn a profit of thousands of shekels per building razed."

    In recent weeks, the demolitions of homes, along with aerial bombardments, have been "the only operational activity that has been carried out systematically" by the Israeli army in Gaza, according to Haaretz. "Hundreds of bulldozers, excavators, and armored Israeli Caterpillar D9 bulldozers continue their efforts to make Gaza uninhabitable for years to come."

    I'd actually disagree with the idea it's to make it uninhabitable for years to come. First of all turning the ruins into a carpark military makes it harder for HAMAS to ambush them. Secondly and more importantly I'd conclude that the bulldozers are not to make it uninhabitable but actually a step towards making it habitable for Israelis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭sock.rocker*


    All the crying over the years about believing Hamas numbers and now Israel's own numbers say 83% of deaths are civilians.

    I looked into it and to get those sorts of ratios elsewhere, you need to look at the Rwandan genocide, the Lebanon War (85% during Israel's siege), the Persian Gulf War (88%), and the Korean War (74%)

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8581199/

    The fact it is so one-sided in Gaza is appalling. Israel controls their food, water, medicine etc. and they aren't even fighting an army or any sort of organised force. They've had the place barricaded for like two decades and had warning of October 7th's attack a year in advance. The fact they care more about killing Gazan civilians than getting Israeli hostages back says a lot.

    Post edited by sock.rocker* on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,332 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Bibi calling for change in how social media companies operate, obviously this will happen and mass bans of footage and views about what is going on will be quietly silenced.

    Can you imagine what a bubble we would be in if not for people with a mobile phone being able to upload video's and make it known what was going on. With no reporting allowed on the ground we would not have a clue if we were living in the 80's, we would be blind to it.

    The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. — Antonio Gramsci



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Just heard on RTE radio that the UN will confirm that there is famine in Gaza.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,248 ✭✭✭✭2smiggy


    ha, lose american support and they are nothing, and will be nothing again



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,021 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,400 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    But won't call it a genocide. It's a deliberate famine, designed to starve the population to death. It's a genocide.

    Last year people were debating what a genocide was. For example if the targeting of museums would make it a genocide.

    This now is clearly a genocide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    A report by the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC), the main global hunger monitor working with the UN and other aid agencies, is due to be published today.

    An interim statement it released in late July said famine was "playing out" in Gaza.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    "Let us do our extermination in the dark."

    To be fair it was much easier for ze Nazis to do their mass killing pre-X. Also gave the bulk plausible deniability.

    I mean even the fantastic motormouth that is Destiny gave them advice on not recording their war-crimes.

    https://x.com/MrGeraldWayne/status/1937317535856361774?t=GlUYZfQ1CnIjw92mSVKxIA&s=19

    Old habits die hard...

    Anyhoo..... 684 days (+77) years of the terrorist state of Israelis publicly broadcasted genocide of the Palestinians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,566 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    I read an article sometime ago that has quotes from senior ex US Officals and even ex Israeli officials who admit the policy of Likud ( in particular ) has been to use islamists as both an ally and a foe over the years.

    With this in mind, let's for argument sake say Hamas are defeated and the PA do not rule Gaza in the future, is a man who has made it his life work to thwart a two state solution going to suddenly be receptive to the idea of a two state solution? As he boasted to colleagues in recent years we need to manage Hamas to undermine the PA in order to forestall a two state solution. The truth is Hamas and variants of them are the perfect bogeyman to realise the Likud and far right vision of a greater Israel.

    Post edited by nacho libre on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,566 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    I see Huckabee the cretin has defended the e 1 scheme. There is literally nothing Israel could do for him to abandon them. If they dropped a nuke on Gaza he'd be condemning others for provoking Israel into having to use it. The only hope- and it is a forlorn one- is that there now seems to be a disconnect between the majority of Americans and their government over Gaza. It probably is pie in the sky stuff to hope this will eventually lead to a shift in US policy towards Israel. Donnie could end this all with phone call to Bibi if he did a Regan on it and said he would halt all arms shipment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,059 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    A couple of weeks ago that cowardly evil asshole Netanyahu was blaming Hamas booby traps for all the destruction. He has really gaslighted his own people and Israeli govt supporters. This is total expulsion and annexation, plain and simple.

    Post edited by Cluedo Monopoly on

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,485 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The West should be looking at an armed intervention at this point. Future war crimes trials would want to know why western governments didn't take forceful action to get food into Gaza once famine had been declared.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    This ^ If this was any other country a task force would have been despatched months ago.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭sock.rocker*


    What the UN says is meaningless. Israel supporters have already been told the UN is full of members of Hamas so they think the UN, and every other organisation who says Gaza is suffering, is just antisemitic.

    The fact that the UN says there is a famine will simply be validation that there 100% must not be a famine. Maybe they will call for the IDF to invade Gaza harder so Israelis can enjoy all the delicious red velvet cakes Gazans are munching down for brunch.

    There are people on this thread so fưcking retarded, they'd believe that and support it. If the Jerusalem Post said that Hamas were hiding a red velvet in their mother's vagina, they would give the go ahead for Bibi to invade it personally. They just lick up anything they are told.



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