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Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 02/09/25*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,726 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    It wouldn't take long at all to allocate some land, setup some tents or temporary shelter, hire security, facilities and essential staff to oversee and assist with basic food and health care.

    It was done in Laois on the grounds used by Electric Picnic. It can be done again!

    My suggestion would be Airport/Port adjacent for cutting down on transportation costs.

    This is very possible and relatively easily done as it was the first time - all that's missing is the will!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,247 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Have you read my posts Cordell yesterday about this ?And the one you replied to explained about the EU nurses or lack of them .

    We absolutely need them until we have enough of our own trained . That will take a decade or so the rate numbers are increasing in college .

    Numbers of nurses being trained has gone up over the last few years but we are one fifth capacity down in our numbers .

    Healthcare is one area where we cannot afford to take a hit with staffing even though the government with their recruitment embargo and other cutbacks like to think so. ..until the next disaster happens and red-faced HSE bosses retire on big pensions/ golden handshakes , and MoH is on the news announcing increased beds ...but wait , we have no staff!

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack


    …and these people are only doing what humans have always done, seeked out better opportunities.

    They need to stay home and create the opportunities in their home nations. If this doesn't happen, the problem becomes perpetual. The constant hemorrhaging of the 'middle class' from non-EU nations means they don't even get the foundations for economic growth in place to make their home countries more opportunistic for the next generations.

    It's high time for very strong action to be taken, seal the EU borders - the US is already doing this. The message to the rest of the world needs to be clear. The EU and US are no longer a destination. They have to quickly and swiftly get their home countries in order.

    To encourage this, I'd fully support an initiative whereby a non-EU/US/Western Nation gets all their national debt forgiven when they reach a level of GNP (not GDP) that is proven to almost completely eradicate the appetite to migrate to western nations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack


    Policy is going to have to change, and it's going to have to change very soon. There is serious levels of public anger simmering. Another incident like Parnell Square will make the night of discontent that followed look like a cute kitten festival.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭satguy


    I often wonder if we have time for political activism, or even using your vote to push change.

    You can feel the tension in the air, Ireland, and indeed western Europe is like a powder keg. When the spark comes, it will be time for another kind of activism, or if your old like me, keeping your head down.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,121 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Lol. How do you know where they came from? I'm sure you're wise enough to know you can't just dump anonymous people into other countries. Or maybe not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,770 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    @Goldengirl

    this 28 days of advertising roles for Irish / EEA applicants first……does this rule apply everywhere?

    In 3rd-level education, I have seen recruitment of lecturers, where all the shortlisted/interviewed candidates are non-Irish.

    I understand why we recruit outside the EU due to shortages in healthcare labour markets, fair enough.

    But does this also apply in 3rd-level education?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,121 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    How many years do you think it will be before an Irish government will put people into camps like this surrounded by I assume armed guards and barbed wire and turrets?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,166 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Letting your imagination run riot there.

    Why does everything come back to fascist motifs all the time with some people?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,121 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    He said put them in a camp somewhere. Are they free to come and go as they please or will they be kept there?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭satguy


    I don't think you would need armed guards on the turrets.

    I have trouble sleeping at night, so would gladly volunteer a few nights per month if it would help out. Maybe others would also help out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,726 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    They would be "kept secure for their safety and protection" (from all those far-right folks overrunning the country!)

    But here's the beauty of it. If they don't like the arrangement, they can always leave (Ireland) and try their luck elsewhere!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,247 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    It's not mandatory afaik just recommended.🙄

    Don't know how they justify that to be honest unless they have already advertised and didn't find anyone suitably qualified in Ireland / EU .

    Was it a specific post ? Specific qualifications ? Like South Asian Studies maybe ?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,247 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Jeez satguy , thought you said you were getting too old ?

    That armed guard business is a young man's game .

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭tom23


    why should they be allowed to come and go as they please? it’s not a holiday camp where they get to go exploring. Claims should be processed in a month and they should stay in said camp until then. I would expect the ‘camp’ to cater for their every need. Now I expect you tell me why none of this will work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack


    Every airline landing here will have to produce their PAX list (Ryanair have said they even offered this to the DOJ in Ireland) and a dedicated passport control desk(s) for every flight. That way we will know exactly where they came from. We return them there.

    The ferry terminals is even easier to do this owing to much lower PAX volumes.

    With regards to NI - they'll have an ultimatum, either permanent checks on the 213 routes crossing the border or they implement our rules in their airports and ferry terminals. A border control down the Irish sea.

    Going by the love-in between a select few 'Coolock Says No' and the Loyalists up North, it seems like a very easy win there to get over the line.

    If France/Germany/whatever other EU nation has a problem taking illegal PAX back when we can prove they're the origin country, then we start with-holding EU contributions - a set charge per refusal that equals the cost of keeping illegals here.

    The EU will soon change it's tune. It's time to get hard-nosed about this non-stop wave of illegal migration, we need a Minister for Justice who can go on record saying that we are no longer accepting illegal migration under any circumstances, we are also going to severely limit legal migration until we have capacity to resume - and above all else be unapologetic for saying it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,935 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    I thought it would be fairly obvious but seeing the other suggestions by other posters saying send them all back on the next flight appear to not understand how airports or anything else works.

    People who seek asylum are not criminals by default. This country does thankfully not detain non criminal people on that basis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭tom23


    And even if they were criminals by default or not - we wouldn’t bother are arses to check now would we?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,935 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    Why would we not check as part of the asylum process?

    Do you agree with other posters here it's possible to send people who claimed asylum back on the next flight?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,121 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    So a poster started going on about keeping them in camps. I asked when does he think we'll see asylum seekers kept in camps either guards etc.

    Maybe ask that poster how his camp works not me.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack


    We don't properly check, do we? Even when it's easy to check with our EU counterparts:

    Suspected sex offender used 27 aliases in UK and France before arriving in Ireland, court hears

    If they have non-EU criminal records, good luck getting those.

    Post edited by Necro on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,457 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    It's worth noting these Indians will become part of the electorate. Expect many people born in India to get elected in the coming decades. I think they'll support even more immigration from India going forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,457 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    I think offering the father 6 months fully paid parental leave after the mother's term is up and if she decides to go back to work would be significant progress.

    By all means support the mothers more but fathers can do their part too. Take turns at home. There are many aspects to improve the situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,121 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    There are something like 1.3 billion Indians in the world now not far off a quarter of the world population. So yes they'll be very prevalent in many countries going forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,457 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Well western countries. African countries and South America/Central America I can't see them emigrating in huge numbers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 182 ✭✭BandyMandy


    Using military barracks to house IP applicants is nothing short of insanity! These places are meant for defense, not to be turned into hostels. Nobody  knows who’s being put in there, yet our soldiers are forced to cater to their needs, it really is an insult to our military and the country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 853 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    The amount of Indians joining and volunteering for Fine Gael is huge. I suppose it makes sense, they want to keep the status quo of the floodgates open to their fellow compatriots and the generous “supports” they receive going.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,328 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Indians will be to FG, the same as how Keir Starmers Labour, have become reliant on the Pakistani population for votes in parts of the UK.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,726 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    This is an example of something that's really not being considered enough - the longer term, wider effects on our society.

    Yes the immediate issues of the impact on housing, essential services, social supports etc are real, significant, and critical when it comes to immigration in general - but it's the longer term impact of the effect of all this will have on communities, culture, politics and policy, education, and all the other elements that make up the way we live and our values.

    Now, to be clear - this is not all negative by default. Different voices and different ideas are a good thing (part of the current problem we have within politics is the never-ending go-around between FF and FG - even more so since they stopped pretending and have essentially merged in the last decade), but we are not considering the impact of hundreds of thousands of new arrivals in a span of only a few years will have on our longer term way of life and national identity.

    We're in fact already seeing some of these effects through things like hate speech legislation, the nonsense hysteria around the "far-right" from politicians, media, and even here, Africa Day, BLM marches, and so on - all things that have come about because of, or been imported with, the surge of migration we've experienced.

    It's not just housing demand that we can't keep up with - this pace of societal change is significant too and it's causing problems more and more because not only are integration efforts badly lacking, but preferential treatment and prioritisation of new arrivals over the locals is causing a lot of resentment and discontent too, hence the rise in frequency and attendance of protest marches across the country.

    I live in Ireland, born to Irish parents, educated in Irish schools and grew up surrounded by Irish culture, history and society. We are FAR from perfect as a country in so many ways absolutely - but there's nothing wrong with wanting to retain that uniqueness and identity, especially in an increasingly divided and polarised world, and especially against attempts to dilute that identity and sovereignty in the name of "inclusiveness" (or really economic growth and profit, and an EU goal to reduce homogeneity among member states as espoused by the late Peter Sutherland - someone who had the power and influence to make this happen).

    What SHOULD be happening of course is that immigration benefits US - not just multinationals, coffee shops, delivery companies, and the new arrivals themselves. It SHOULD be on OUR terms, and from places and in numbers that WE decide, and NEVER at the expense of our own society or people as is the case now - after all, every one of these migrants (legal or otherwise!) is here because they want something we have! That's fair enough to a point, but why should they be the only ones who benefit, or who benefit more?

    Continuing to ignore this and the legitimate and genuine concerns and issues that people have (and are already experiencing!) will only increase the divisions that are already forming between different groups.

    I can easily see situations where, just as in the past people who had the chance would move out of certain areas because of criminality, drugs, decay or lack of investment etc, we will see demographics shift massively in those areas - it's already happening in my own immediate area. Not so much in the wealthier parts of the town though! Maybe we'll get to the point of American-style "Chinatowns" and so on yet which in my view benefits no one as it only strengthens those divides.

    What happens if or when we start to see more of the problems seen in certain parts of the UK, Germany or France? We've already experienced some of this in the past few years to often tragic effects but why do some think that Ireland will somehow be spared this? If anything we're even more vulnerable because of current policies and an outright refusal to learn from, and attempt to prevent, Ireland from having to go through their mistakes.

    Again, immigration can be absolutely a positive thing - so long as it's properly managed and with the interests and rewards to the host country and its people being paramount in all discussions, decisions, and policies made around it. This is where we are failing, and failing badly!

    Unfortunately though, I fear we're already past the point of no return. Now we're into damage control and damage limitation - but even here we're failing through the willful ignoring of increasingly obvious and deteriorating problems that are being seen and felt all across the country.

    Instead our leaders, their NGO lobbyists, our mainstream media, and those making significant coin from all this are sleepwalking us down the same path already trodden by the countries I mentioned earlier.

    We've made significant progress as a country and society in the last 35/40 years - but we're rapidly undoing much of it, and while the well-connected and wealthy upper class will be insulated and even benefit from this, the rest of us will not be so lucky!

    It's not looking good already!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭Bogey Lowenstein
    That must be Nigel with the brie...


    This is a popular tactic to gain new voters. See also how Obama allowed illegal immigrants to remain in the country and gave them voting rights to boost his numbers. Biden then took it to another level completely.



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