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Northern Ireland 2125?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Irish History


    Yes we native Irish are Gaels. I did not write other people could not become Irish. You are just too dumb to realise that it seems.

    Mod - warned for breach of charter

    Post edited by Leg End Reject on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "That they lost"

    They won then…? NI Constitution Act 1973 (set up Sunningdale): no change in the status of NI without a consent of the majority. GFA 1998: same language used again. Irish Republicanism signed up this time. Where's the "win"?

    "Fact is, the GFA will deliver a UI."

    If a majority in NI vote for it, it'll happen. Until then………



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,270 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yes. And unlike Sunningdale where they were not at the table SF achieved the right to power-share which has allowed them to get where the statlet was designed never to allow a taig - largest party with the First Minister.

    Maybe you folk would have preferred the violence to continue? You don’t half sound like you do.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Violence to continue? I said earlier the IRA should have quit when the old Stormont regime fell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,270 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Do you seriously think with both sides killing the same amount, internment going on, Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy going on, Ulster Unionists threatening a blood bath if the British failed them that there was a prospect of the IRA quitting?

    What version of world history have you studied Disney’s?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "Do you seriously think with both sides killing the same amount, internment going on, Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy going on, Ulster Unionists threatening a blood bath if the British failed them that there was a prospect of the IRA quitting?"

    Francie, you accused me of maybe wanting the violence to continue. You've no problem it seems of it continuing in the 1970s.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,270 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Tell me you can’t answer the question without telling me you can’t answer the question.

    Yeh sure, the IRA should have just quit with the British who had been mowing civilians down on the streets wanting control of ‘law and order’ and Unionists baying about a bloodbath?
    Come on, no credible person could believe it was that simple. And you have the advantage of hindsight too, try to imagine yourself being a decision maker in the middle of all that conflict/war be it any of the combatants. Nobody trusted anyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,220 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Any time someone harks towards the Mallon quote, 'Sunningdale for slow learners' as a criticism towards the Nationalist community in NI, you can be pretty sure the person quoting it doesn't know their arse from their elbow.

    Even if one ignores the very substantial differences between the two, it ignores the fact that it was Loyalists who pulled down Sunningdale. Have a wee look into the Ulster Workers Council strikes.....might also be worth noting the difference in how the British forces treated Loyalist protesters at this time versus the Irish Civil Rights movement.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hindsight? If that’s the case, Irish Republicanism should have learned from its own mistakes then. The stupid campaign of 1939/40. Ditto 1956-62, and then the “final push to victory” from 1969.

    The emergence of the Hume-Adams talks in the late 80s, plus secret contacts with the British government was evidence the Republican leadership knew it was heading for defeat again and was looking for a soft landing for its support base so they could spread the narrative that they hadn’t “lost” again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,270 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    😁😁 whatever. If you can get your theories to match the reality of how it played out get back to me.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes, intransigent Unionism played it’s part in bringing down Sunningdale, but the IRA’s continuing campaign hardly contributed to providing a stable environment so that the institutions could have survived did it?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes Francie, read the “constitutional issues” section of the GFA and tell me how it turned out….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,270 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The GFA is a process. That process will finish with the end of partition and NI.

    Planning for a breakaway ‘satelite to the motherland’ is already in Unionists sieged minds.

    Sunningdale didn’t deliver that. It just delivered more bloodshed. Hume failed and it wasn’t until he teamed with Adams and his whole island solution that he jointly succeeded with SF.

    Mallon with Eddie McGrady etc tried to stop Hume and forced him to go it alone.

    Mallon never got over that and ended up a bitter and jealous man. It could have been known as the SDLP/SF initiative but he backed the wrong horse - his own arrogance and exclusionary ideology. The electorate never fogave the SDLP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,270 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    played a part????😁😁😁

    Now you prove you don’t have a clue. Read a history book maybe?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    planning a homeland breakaway, as you call it, for an unlikely positive UI poll, is just sensible.
    it’s pretty close to what you guys done in the ‘20s - indeed a ‘breakaway homeland’, involving only part of the island, seems a pretty good name for ROI

    I am sure it was painfull to leave a bit behind, and it will be painful for us if we have to leave a bit behind



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,270 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    We were in our homeland. We didn’t ’breakaway a thing.

    Another lad with a dodgy grasp of history.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Francie you remind me of the Brexiteers and some of the "sunny uplands" rubbish that they used to come out with. "How do you know Brexit will be good for Britain?" "Because it will be" was one of the answers. Similar with SF and their belief in a UI and it's the inevitable solution. Style over substance.

    A history book? Go on Francie, tell me the IRA's campaign was helping the situation in 1973.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,220 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Intransigent Unionism didn't play it's part, it was entirely responsible for bringing down Sunningdale.

    While it shouldn't have to be said, this is not a statement intended to defend the Provos, but not contributing to a stable environment was pretty much their point. Given the nature of the institutions at the time, it isn't very surprising that they didn't want them to survive it really......and given they had absolutely zero to do with the Sunningdale Agreement and nothing to do with it falling apart, trying to pivot to, 'but the Provos' after a pithy passing line about intransigent Unionism is an obnoxious level of uninformed whataboutery.

    So aye, I'm pretty confident with my statement that anyone who harks to Mallon's line as a criticism of Nationalists doesn't know their arse from their elbow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,270 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Who said anyone was helping?


    Do you read anything?

    There was chaos, nobody trusted anyone, both sides were killing, one backed by a government but YOU reckon the IRA should have stopped.

    Utter nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    After all what U said happened- then Provo Tonne bombs were detonated in England in 1996- then Martin McGuinness then got elected MP for mid-ulster- that showed support from the people who the RA stood for- where is your neglect there-?-

    The GFA removed the 1920 government of Ireland act-

    Act(s of union got the boot-

    Perhaps U should keep up with events that actually happened- not your wish list-



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sunningdale was arguably more favourable for Nationalists than 1998 what with the Council of Ireland option. But apparently Irish republicans knew better with their "UI or nothing" linear thinking. "Arse elbows" and all that……



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    SF thinking in a nutshell. "But, but, but, you can't expect us to do anything to stop the conflict because 'themuns' are at it too". Seriously, is that the best you can do?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    Sunningdale never removed 1 foreign armed English troop from the 6 counties-

    The GFA removed over 30 thousand of the armed scum from patrolling OUR streets-

    Is that why U hate our GFA-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    Them uns were the invading brit empire -

    U don't know that at least- or are U to deluded-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    It is always the other sides fault, says you, and you despise the other side.

    The border poll of 1973 was the first application of what is now a fundamental principle which can be stated as follows: that it is for the people of Northern Ireland to decide whether Northern Ireland is to become part of a unified island of Ireland or to remain part of the United Kingdom.

    And note the reference here to “the people” – and thereby the decision is not for the politicians of Northern Ireland or any representative body, such as a Northern Ireland parliament.

    This is significant. It was a free and fair referendum. A minority of voters boycotted it because they knew they would not win it.

    Ever wonder why unionists do not want to get in to bed with you in a U.I., apart from the fact some in the CNR community boycotted the last referendum? Someone else described it better than I can.

    100 years ago Ireland gained independence but there were fears how Protestants would fare in a Catholic state, so 6 counties remained in the UK with roughly 80% Protestants and 20% Catholics, whilst 26 counties left to form the Republic of Ireland with roughly 88% Catholics and 12% Protestants.

    Today 100 years later Catholics in Northern Ireland have thrived to more than double to roughly 50% today. However the fears seem to be founded with Protestants all but eliminated in the Republic of Ireland with only 3 or 4% remaining today.

    So Northern Ireland exists because there isn’t a place in the Republic of Ireland for Protestants.

    Ireland doesn’t want Unionists, and Unionists in Northern Ireland don’t want to be part of a so called “united” Ireland that doesn’t want and doesn’t want to understand Unionists or even consider them. There is a real problem in Ireland that exists today. Even Graeme Norton famously remarked when asked about how was it being gay growing up in Ireland where he said “try being a Protestant in RoI. Where else in all Europe would you hear this ? Certainly not in England.

    Even if you listen to the IRA and what they were trying to do, summed up by IRA man Eamon Collins who said Warrenpoint was bombed as "it seemed to be cocooned & relatively prosperous. Middle-class Catholics & Protestants lived in harmony, united". He said "I loathed the tranquillity of this little seaside town”

    To attempt to force around 1 million Unionists into a country they don’t want and don’t want them is just impossible, and would cause such unrest, that would spiral out of control. During the troubles there were 27,000 troops with equipment, logistics and barracks, and the Irish Army has 8,000 personnel and most of those are administrative and the Gardai just couldn’t cope. For British troops to then be deployed to what would be Ireland wouldn’t be acceptable.

    In addition due to the bombings Northern Ireland’s economy collapsed and as such tax payers enormously subsidise Northern Ireland, in areas of Health, education, infrastructure, pensions, social security etc etc. With the UK having 68 million people and Ireland barely a tenth of that at 5 million the Irish government just don’t have the capacity or ability to support Northern Ireland and the Irish would resent supporting Northerners.

    To expand on that a pro united Ireland rally was held not many years ago in Dublin which Leo Varadkar attended. Free buses from Northern Ireland to Dublin were provided but curtains had to be draped on both sides of the arena to hide the empty seats. So it appears those in favour are the same old people talking amongst themselves.

    So no, there is no capacity or capability to have a referendum until these underlying issues are sorted, and that’s 50 or more years away



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    but you retracted into 26 of the 32 counties because you couldn’t hold the 32 - just what unionists in ni will do in a worst case scenario ie give up part of ni if that is what is required to ensure ni continues



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭Randycove




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    I think the island will be unified by 2125 but will be unrecognisable from the place we grew up in. By then Islam will likely be the majority religion. Britain likewise. What is now rhe EU will be in a similar position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,220 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    What the bejaysus does this very familiar seeming stream of consciousness nonsense have to do with the Sunningdale Agreement?

    It is a statement of fact that the Sunningdale Agreement collapsed due to the Ulster Workers Council strikes. I'm from a, 'mixed' background in NI terms, so it'd be pretty tough for me to despise the other side.

    The rest of your reply is rambling nonsense that is absolutely nothing to do with my post so I've no idea why you directed it at me. The strange posting style does seem awfully similar to another poster on this thread though.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,220 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Speaking of slow learners, I'm not sure how many times it has to be repeated...

    Whether Sunningdale was more or less favourable to Nationalists than the GFA, 'Irish Republicans' had nothing to do with it's collapse. The Sunningdale Agreement was collapsed because of the Ulster Workers Council strikes.



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