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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Interesting article with interesting links.

    Renewables aren’t renewable

     the researchers found that wind and solar are respectively 33 and 23 times worse than natural gas in terms of mineral resource scarcity. When battery storage is considered, their impact increased by orders of magnitude, making them 421 and 412 times worse, respectively.

    https://www.mackinac.org/blog/2025/renewables-arent-renewable



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,145 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    What does the Sec Gen mean by data centres have swallowed up all the power? Last i checked there's an extremely rigorous connection process to follow or does she think they sprout out of the ground overnight and surprise everyone.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    hmm, usual suspects consultants pushing ruinable electricity myths, it's not secure and it's not cheap.

    Ms Buckley was speaking at an event for a new organisation, Trifecta Ireland, which aims to push for an energy policy that better pursues the aims of being clean, secure and affordable for all.


    Data centers are a diversion from Eirgrid and Oonaghs department failures that today have left us with expensive electricity, dependency on inter-connectors and diesel generators to meet peak demand to keep the lights on.

    By 2034 EirGrid's analysis shows demand will be above 7,000 megawatts. source


    2034 is 9 years time, All Ireland peak demand hit 7502MW earlier this year when the sun was not shining nor wind blowing. Typical peak demand is close on 5,000 MW now, which means they need to bring an additional 2000 MW generation online over the next 10 years as well as maintain existing plant.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,575 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    "The Mackinac Center for Public Policy is a nonprofit research and educational institute that advances the principles of free markets and limited government. "



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Wait so panels, generators, batteries etc don’t grow naturally in organic farm fields in China harvested by happy peasants singing praises to Winnie the Pooh?!

    No way why would anyone try to mislead us sophisticated paddies?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,783 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Unless you purchase very high quality and expensive clothing, most clothes sold in retail are designed to not last - they will fall apart, shrink, discolour or otherwise become unusable long before a needle and thread is required



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,145 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    It's not just generation they need to bring online. The Dublin metro area is already in trouble with short circuit levels and without significant reinforcements very soon they won't be able to connect any new power to it

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Good news, third highest electricity prices in world which keeps going up suspiciously inline with amounts of renewables built and guaranteed prices by government

    All while global oil and gas prices are below prewar levels



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,042 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    This has very little to do with green policies. The grids in France and Iceland are among the cleanest in the world and also the cheapest

    This is all to do with how we privatised our network back in the 2000's. We pay every supplier the same unit rate for electricity produced. That means if the coal supplier is looking for more money then the solar, wind, gas and oil producers all get the same thing.

    We also decided to split the production and billing sides so that instead of having one government run entity generating the electricity and selling it to us, we decided to have 12 different private companies effectively just issuing us with the bills from the wholesalers, plus a profitable markup of course. If we want cheaper electricity in this country we need to re-nationalise the electricity sector first and foremost and cut the needless private profit out of the equation



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    France has nuclear, Iceland has geothermal, we have neither

    Only vested interests who we’re guaranteed high profits at expense of the consumer



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,042 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The French and Icelandic supply is also largely state owned and doesn't have the profit issue that we have here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,093 ✭✭✭conorhal


    The Dutch are now suffering the consequences of 'putting the cart before the horse planning' as they are forced to ration power. The infrastructure network is not in place to meet demand as a result if the reconfiguration towards less reliable sources of energy. It seems that a lack of joined up thinking and ability to forward plan is not just an Irish disease…

    https://www.ft.com/content/9c7560ec-a220-4150-a35e-a79db70c0c07

    More than 11,900 businesses are waiting for electricity network connections, according to Netbeheer Nederland, the association of Dutch grid operators. On top of that are public buildings such as hospitals and fire stations as well as thousands of new houses.Dutch officials and companies said lengthy waits for connections were holding up economic growth and could force businesses to rethink their investment plans. Despite efforts to invest in new cables and substations, new connections in some areas of the country will only become available in the mid-2030s, according to network operators.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,042 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Just because others fail at forward planning does not mean we should be allowed to



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,575 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i don't think that post was implying that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,145 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    We've already failed due to government policy amd inaction to tackle the archane planning laws that allow any gobshıtě object to anything anywhere.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    My point was that renewables are presented as green when they are not due to scarcity and complexity of materials used in harvesting such energy. Add in maintenance cost and "shelf life" and cost of disposal and suddenly it become expensive and not green at all.

    Problem with renewables is that they are costly to set up and then costly to maintain and whole industry would be on its knees without heavy government support and subsidies.

    So there is no point to pat ourselves on our back about how much of solar or wind energy was generated when we (as taxpayers) end up paying for it twice, once when its generated and then again when we use it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Here is something from the UK: The truth about Britain's taxpayer cash-soaked wind farm industry laid bare in scandalous detail in court papers

    First, though, a brief lesson in wind farm economics. In common with all British facilities, Dorenell generates insufficient power to make back the cost of its construction by simply selling electricity on the open market.
    <snip>
    That’s more than £850 for every household and equates to around 40 per cent of the electricity costs you are currently paying every month.
    <snip>
    Dorenell is a case in point. For according to court papers, in 2023 it received £37million in ‘constraint payments’, equating to half its gross income of £74million. The following year, the figure was £40million. 

    These sums were then included in figures used to calculate Moran’s rent– but Dorenell Windfarm Limited was also making extra cash from shutting down its turbines by exploiting a loophole in the subsidy system via which farms receiving ‘constraint payments’ are provided with ‘credited energy’ they can then sell on the open market.

    A highly-complex trading arrangement then allowed them to make millions in extra profits by selling the ‘credited energy’ that they’d never actually generated when prices were high. source



    What is the dividing line between subsidies and money laundering? In the UK politicians from both Labour and Tories are backed by wealthy sponsors to make a case for net zero, they set up quangos to push the narrative, award said quangos limitless amounts of tax payer cash to appear to achieve fictitious targets (2030) and then disappear with all the money.

    This seems to benefit wealthy landowners in Scotland (Moran is a Tory donor), not to mention the crown estate (i.e. the King) who lease the seabed to the turbines. Here are two of the big players.


    The court judgement is here, makes it very clear that the contracts for Difference (CfD) is a subsidy.

    Essentially because wind is a free resource and the operation of windfarms is a heavily subsidised industry, the economics of the situation are such that the operator of a windfarm may well only be prepared to submit a bid to reduce its electricity generation on terms that involve it being paid to do so. more

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Many of the issues have been called out by Vaclav Smil: 21st century energy: some sobering thoughts

    Further to your point the lower the power density, the greater the resource intensity. Because these things produce so little energy for the land area they consume, we must build substantially more infrastructure to capture that intermittent output and build more infrastructure still to manage it, e.g. inter-connectors, standby generation, synchronous condensers, batteries.

    Several UK commentators have observed that Ireland is a net drain on the UKs electricity supply. Our over-reliance on inter-connectors may well be delaying investment in domestic generation and exposing us to costs and problems due to system stress on the UK grid. The UK is facing it's own issues with inter-connectors, such as the outcome of the upcoming Norwegian elections.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    IMG_6025.jpeg

    new esb ev charging prices, more expensive than petrol



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,575 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    And no sign of off peak charging rates.



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  • Site Banned Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    that’s actually one of the schemes I could get behind, sounds like it’s destined for chopping block



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 491 ✭✭bluedex


    Follow the money. The Investment Fund industry has more or less abandoned the ESG concept, globally, which they now see as "irrelevant". Europe was the last bastion and even that is now dwindling away. It was always just a marketing angle in reality.

    Source: Ignites Europe

    "Fund buyers planning to increase ESG allocations disappear: research

    Selectors have grown 'disillusioned' with sustainable investing, according to Broadridge

    European fund selectors intending to increase their allocations to sustainable investments have all but disappeared, new research finds, with a loss of confidence meaning investors view the products with "pragmatic indifference".

    The proportion of professional fund buyers planning to increase their investment in environmental, social and governance-related funds fell from a peak of 37 per cent in early 2021 to 3 per cent by late 2024, but has dried up entirely in the second quarter of 2025.

    The analysis subtracts the number of selectors with negative allocation intentions from those with positive intentions to create a net figure. The findings are based on interviews carried out by Broadridge with around 800 wholesale and retail fund selectors across 10 European markets.

    Ralph Williams, director of Europe, the Middle East and Africa insights at Broadridge, said: "ESG was once the undisputed darling of European fund selectors.

    "But today, it's vanishing fast from both portfolios and product pipelines."

    He said that while previous increases in ESG allocations had left "less room for increases today", this reason was "not the main driver" of the decline in planned investments.

    Instead the decline in appetite reflected growing "disillusionment" with sustainable products.

    The decline in sentiment is also reflected in European fund flows.

    Net flows for funds with sustainability, impact or ESG goals as a primary focus of their investment objective or strategy peaked in 2021, totalling €416bn, according to Broadridge data.

    However, flows have since dropped in each succeeding year and have suffered net redemptions totalling €8bn over the first five months of 2025.

    Williams said "opportunistic" investors in sustainable funds had been the first to leave "when performance soured", but he added that "pragmatic" and "conviction" buyers had previously stayed invested "to a degree".

    "For [pragmatic fund buyers], ESG was less about values and more about client demand, reputational management and regulatory alignment….

    "They didn't expect perfection, but they did expect progress: a clear regulatory roadmap, credible standards, improved data and transparency from asset managers.

    "Over time, they've felt let down on all fronts."

    European fund buyers were retreating to a position of "pragmatic indifference", rather than to "anti-ESG sentiment", he added."

    The kicker:

    "[But] distributors no longer see ESG as broken but fixable; they see it as irrelevant."

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,334 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    What are they investing in instead?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 491 ✭✭bluedex


    Real assets and private markets. The things they invested in before ESG Investing became the latest fad.

    "The research also shows that changing fund selector sentiment has implications for asset managers' product development plans.

    ESG had consistently ranked at the top of buyers' needs in product innovation from late 2018 until early 2024.

    But this changed over the course of 2024 and ESG does not feature among selectors' top 10 product innovation needs in Broadridge's latest round of interviews in 2025.

    Private markets and real assets now rank as the most in-demand products among fund buyers, the researchers find."

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    ESG and Green funds have terribly underperformed in last 5+ years, and companies like Orsted … well lol dont lookup their graph

    Many are often below inflation at best (aka losing money, especially after fees)

    So to answer your question; anyone who doesnt want to become poorer is investing in just about anything else

    Theres a bigger issue here for Ireland IMHO, alot of pension funds (not gonna name them but you hear their ads all time on radio) by default shoved alot of people into these funds, and most people dont keep too close an eye on their pensions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 491 ✭✭bluedex


    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Turns out AIB lost a load on these green “schemes”

    https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/irelands-aib-sees-slower-loan-growth-subdued-smes-us-renewable-woes-2025-08-01/

    But it’s ok, sure the Irish taxpayer can alway bail em out again while they double down on green



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    There is more and more will be coming…

    https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/US-Startup-Scoops-Up-Bankrupt-Northvolts-5B-European-Gigafactory-Assets.html

    So, $10 billion in capitalization with at least $5 billion in direct capital investment, only a few years old, now only worth $200 million.

    The "green energy" scam in a nutshell.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    There’s a lot of communities up and down west coast learning about these policies first hand, massive objections to gas plants, wind turbines and solar and battery installations (insane to think these be profitable in west of Ireland were sun is nonexistent)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,922 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    not as costly as gas and other sources.
    all energy generation requires subsidy, it's just you aren't told about it, you are paying twice and always have been.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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