Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.

Jury service: Does it need an audit/supervisor?

  • 26-07-2025 09:59PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭


    I served Jury duty this year and I was utterly disappointed.

    Of the 12 of us only 3 of us were able to accept and reject facts when it came to that stage the other 9 had made up their minds and were unable to carry out their duty.

    Would a supervisor help? Could those not particaipating in rejecting accepting facts get replaced and banished to a holding room for the length of time the jury are working? A few of them were clock watchers a few of them held prejudices a few of them were preocupied with the consquences. It is work at the end of the day, unpaid work and it can be unpleasant. The task is simple but 9 out of 12 were unable to preform the task asked.

    The Judge has such a large pool available during the trail, could all who are called not watch the trail in the remote room kind of like a subsitutes bench? Does this happen in other countries? The pool is only tapped for absences or a mistrial? Are we missing a trick?



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,156 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    “Of the 12 of us only 3 of us were able to accept and reject facts when it came to that stage the other 9 had made up their minds and were unable to carry out their duty.”

    I’m assuming so that the jury you sat on couldn’t reach a verdict?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,950 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Did you listen to the directions as to the confidentiality of the jury room? Should the 3 of us who were able to do their duty not be reduced to 2?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭Perks


    I'm not discussing the case Claw Hammer.

    When you have a hammer in your hand everything starts to look like a nail!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,867 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Would a supervisor help?

    The role you're thinking of is called a facilitator. I've seen them in action as part of management training. He or she invariably leads the team in a certain direction so the end result is what the facilitator wanted but the team think they have independently come to the decision they reached.

    So, in the context of a jury, it would not be a good idea. You'd be putting twelve ordinary men and women in the hands of a professionally trained manuipulator.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,950 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    You are discussinmg what happened in the jury room, which you should not do. An appellant in the Court of Appeal may use your post to claim they didn't get a fair trial because the jury didn't engage with the evidence.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,867 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    The OP said: I served Jury duty this year

    It could have been a trial in the CCC or it could have been in the Circuit Court in Tralee. It could even have been a defamation case with a jury, we know literally nothing about the case.

    If what you are suggesting is correct, the OP's post could be used in attempts to overturn every guilty verdict returned by juries in every criminal trial that happened since Jan. 1st last.

    We'd be getting into very dangerous territory if an anonymous post on the internet containing no details of the case or where the trial took place was capable of adversely affecting the administration of justice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,950 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    There is no such thing as anonymous on the internet. I know who you are for example.

    Someone might well be able to make a case that their trial was unfair.

    Someone who got life for murder might well try it on and have the o/p traced and then the cat is out of the bag.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭Perks


    I am not discussing the case. End of case. Unless you can show me legislation that proves otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭Perks


    That's your prejudice. It's not about leading it's about instructing the jury to specifically to engage in the action of rejecting and accept facts. From what I witnessed an audit is needed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,950 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    You are discussing what happened in the jury room. You will have been warned not to do so. I am amazed that you were allowed sit on the jury at all. The defence must have been out of challenges.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,316 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    They wouldn't have known that before it happened to be fair.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,950 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    The defence would have seen him when he was being called for service and would have some details about him before the jury deliberations began. A trained defence lawyer should be able to spot a trouble-maker immediately.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,816 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    a old colleague of mine once served as foreman on a jury, and said he did not enjoy the experience at all. several jurors were wilful idiots who seem to have decided on guilt based on how the accused looked, and one was trying to return a verdict - any verdict, they didn't care - as quickly as possible so they could get home as quickly as possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,316 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Hard to know who would likely share info afterwards though. I was on jury service (and selected) this year, and there were a lot of people rejected by both sides for ostensibly no reason so perhaps it's above my pay grade lol

    Yes this is something I observed, luckily in my jury service there was a plurality of actual jurors and only 1-2 not actively taking part correctly like you describe. I shudder to think what could happen if it were the other way round



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    I served on a jury about 15 years ago. Not being very familiar with court proceedings I was generally impressed at how fair the two-week long trial was and how seriously my fellow jurors took their duties.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,939 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Take 12 random people off the street and it seems reasonable to me that

    a) 4 or 5 will diligently listen to both sides with an open mind.
    b) 2 or 3 will fixate on one or two pieces of evidence and not be open to considering anything else.
    c) 1 or 2 will decide to go with their 'superior gut instinct'.
    d) 1 will just go with the majority to get it over and done with.

    Ideally you'd want more from 'column a', but it probably wouldn't be a representative sample of your peers then. I don't believe the system necessarily considers 'b' and 'c' to be bad jurors per se. 'd' is clearly a waste of space.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,867 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    There's the bones of the script for a stage play there 😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,954 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    And then we could do a film adaptation!

    I'm amazed that no-one has thought of this before.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,816 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    we need to get a bunch of people in a room to brainstorm this idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭watchclocker




  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,816 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    this is the 21st century! we don't want to make anyone angry by excluding them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,226 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    As a veteran of a two-month jury trial myself, it does have a supervisor, the judge.

    After that, each juror's opinion is as valid as anothers'. The deliberation process is to tease out evidence and to relate it back to the judge's charge. If it is the case that certain juror's have, for whatever reason, a prejudiced view that isn't backed up by the evidence in the trial, then the duty of the others is to offer a majority verdict, or that a verdict cannot be reached and the case should be re-tried before a new jury at a later date.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,954 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    That's the point, DayInTheBog. Twelve Angry Men.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,816 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    (insert the 'that's the joke' meme)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,867 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    There's always one 🤨



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭Perks


    warned lol by who? You don't get it. It's Jury behaviour I'm calling into audit and I have not given and will not give any case details. I swore not to discuss the case with anyone bar the choosen Jury. I don't swear easy. Only 3 of 12 could "discuss".

    Has there ever been an audit of the Jury system in Ireland before?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    But what was it about the behaviour of these 75% that made them entirely unfit to serve as a juror?

    They may not have followed a process that appeared logical to you, or they may simply not have communicated it to you, but that doesn’t mean that they arrived at an incorrect outcome.

    What was the outcome out of interest?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,816 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Has there ever been an audit of the Jury system in Ireland before?

    How would this work? It can't examine verdicts with a view to determining if they were correct or not.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,954 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    What magicbastarer said. I think the OP needs to define what they mean by "audit".



Advertisement