Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 02/09/25*

I'm a secondary school religion teacher in an urban area in Munster. Here are some anecdotes from my particular setting. All girls school. Muslim girls not getting their pictures taken with the rest of their Irish/European/Black classmates. 6th year Muslim girls not attending graduation parties and or their debs (its Haram). Muslim girls not getting involved in dancing like Zumba while the rest of the girls are having great fun. Muslim students not going on school tours. Muslim students not playing on any of the schools sports teams bar 2 girls. Muslim students refusing to learn about the resurrection of Jesus and Christianity in general. Ireland is still a Christian country, they should learn about our traditions and beliefs, they live in our country not a Muslim one. Muslim parents at parent teacher meetings challenging Christian belief in Jesus as the Son of God. As their numbers increase they will demand that the graduation mass not be held in the Church ( this has happened in the boys school beside us and management caved in for the promotion of inclusion). How much of our culture and identity do we lose for the sake of inclusion and diversity?

I can only see their numbers increasing year on year. The local primary school up the road has a large Muslim base. This is not the direction I want my school or country going.

Yes Stephen, that’s how they roll in Islam.

How we roll in Ireland is that the kind of behaviour you’re describing is unlawful, and certainly by no means exclusive to Islam. I’m with you on ensuring that it doesn’t become more prevalent, but given Irelands continued disregard for the terms of Istanbul Convention, we’re a long ways off your idea of an open society yet -

https://rm.coe.int/ic-cp-inf-2023-15-cop-recommendation-on-ireland/1680ada54a

Not exclusive? Do you commonly see Irish women wearing niqabs? When was the last time someone in Ireland was attacked by an Irish person for blasphemy?

Don’t let great be the enemy of good - just because we already have our own problems with people who are our responsibility alone, is no excuse to be permissive of behaviours which are far more prevalent in the countries and cultures many of these people are coming from

I think you're missing the point here. I've no problem if they want sit out of religion as per their institutional rights. My problem is they want to pick and choose what they learn in religion. So they've no problem getting involved when I'm teaching Islam but will say they won't learn Christianity because they're Muslim. Surely you see this as a problem?

I find it hard to believe your stories. You posted a thread about Muslims back in 2017 titled "Deport the bastards" referring to Muslims so that's 8+ years now you've been posting anti Muslim content.

The main reason I'm skeptical is because if students are taking religion then there is going to be an exam where they will be asked questions and will have to have knowledge of christianity to answer them. So it sounds like you want us to believe they intentionally fail exams… ok… that's not really common sense is it.

Personally I absolutely hated religion in school, as did most of my mates. We argued all the time with the teacher, who once said "Well we know for a fact that Jesus existed, so that's pretty concrete evidence". This was said when he was asked the question of what proof is there that there is a God, and is this not just made up BS. His response was poor. Studying the Bible was very boring and I haven't picked one up since as I imagine none of the class has.

I don't think you need to think in as long a term as centuries. Get enough in an area to get a mosque built. That attracts more. Another mosque and so on. That's what has happened in Ilford.

Now add Ireland's generous treatment of incomers combined with the Moslem skill at taking advantage of the non Muslim and things could go very fast in Ireland.

Non exam in our school. How in the name of God can you remember a post from me back in 2017? Are you AI

This whole discourse around opposition to immigration being based in racism is like a zombie that just won't stop lumbering forward, no matter how many limbs it has lopped off with facts.

Doesn’t help when you’re choosing to zero in on young Muslim men of Middle Eastern origin in all fairness, you even make the point that you have no idea how many there are but apparently they’re being pumped into the country.

I hope that’s not your idea of a fact.

”A bit Irish”, right that’s 100% you do not even live in Ireland

Your whole response is irrelevant as it’s based around your false argument that I want to make the niqab etc unlawful - I never once said such a thing

I said we shouldn’t be permissive of it and that’s something demeaning that we should challenge

You also have a rather naive view of it I reckon, these women are coerced into this from a young age - just because it’s a cultural norm for them doesn’t mean it’s alright. I think it’s completely fūcked up to be honest, and anyone that had respect for women as their equals wouldn’t for a second countenance it as an acceptable thing to do in modern society.

Applications though, does not mean we’re pumping them into the country when they haven’t been granted refugee status?

But my point was more referring to the way you suggested that the whole discourse around opposition to immigration based on racism being like a zombie that kept lumbering forward no matter how many limbs it has cut off with facts, and then instead of making a broader argument against immigration, you chose to zero in on young Muslim men of Middle Eastern origin and claimed they’re being pumped into the country.

I don’t need a counter-argument when I’m simply pointing out that it doesn’t help when you’re choosing to zero in on young Muslim men of Middle Eastern origin in a discussion about the broader implications of immigration?

It’s you who chose to single out Muslims and declared that if we can make sure our new Muslim neighbours respect us there won’t be a problem, going on about how we need to learn from the mistakes of others and make sure we get this right and all the rest of it.

I’m certain the authorities who are charged with that responsibility are doing what they do, that’s AGS and the legal system in Ireland, as opposed to whatever responsibility or authority you imagine the ordinary Irish people should be burdened with in maintaining law and order. That’s not my responsibility any more than it is yours or anyone else’s, and it certainly doesn’t solely pertain to young Muslim men of Middle Eastern origin whom you’ve chosen to single out for special recognition, it applies to anyone on the island of Ireland to abide by Irish law.

”A bit Irish”, right that’s 100% you do not even live in Ireland 

Perhaps you ought to look up the origin and meaning of the phrase before you make declarations like that 😒

Your whole response is irrelevant as it’s based around your false argument that I want to make the niqab etc unlawful - I never once said such a thing

I said we shouldn’t be permissive of it and that’s something demeaning that we should challenge 

You also have a rather naive view of it I reckon, these women are coerced into this from a young age - just because it’s a cultural norm for them doesn’t mean it’s alright. I think it’s completely fūcked up to be honest, and anyone that had respect for women as their equals wouldn’t for a second countenance it as an acceptable thing to do in modern society.

And how do you propose, other than in law, that we shouldn’t be permissive of something?

My view of it is informed by the women who choose to wear it, whereas yours appears to be based upon your view of women wearing it.

There is no ‘we’, as I’m fine with women wearing whatever they want to wear, they don’t need to seek my permission to wear whatever they want to wear, whereas you would seek to deny women permission to wear whatever they want to wear and try and convince them it’s the only way you’ll see them as your equal when they dress how you want them to dress or look how you want them to look.

It being a cultural norm for them is exactly what makes it alright, and I’m fine with that. I don’t know what makes you think you have the authority to give permission or deny permission to anyone who chooses to wear whatever they want to wear, unless they’re your own child. Then you can knock yourself out 👍