Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.

Copper "Switch-Off"

2»

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Irish Authorities seem helpless to make it happen. They'd probably be quite pleased to hide behind an EU regulation. Anyway here's the overall rationale.

    Practical need for EU action

    The initiative will have significant added value compared to action taken at Member States level. Strengthening European competitiveness requires access to fast, secure, and resilient digital infrastructure. In a context where the digital connectivity landscape is changing rapidly with convergence of telecom, satellite, cloud and edge technology, driven by virtualisation and AI, the EU will only be able to achieve those objectives through a more harmonised legal environment across the EU that avoids inconsistent national administrative practices or implementation conditions that limit the opportunities of the single market.

    Experience with the EECC shows that Member States have not been able to address the sectoral challenges timely, due to the long time needed for transposition of the Code into national law. In addition, the transposition of directives into national law has been often accompanied by additional layers of rules resulting in overregulation.

    Overall, the scale of the problems in the digital ecosystem requires a legislative initiative at EU level because they have increasingly an EU dimension, and can be more efficiently resolved at Union level, leading to overall greater benefits, more accelerated and harmonised implementation, and lower costs than if Member States acted alone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,258 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Just looking at this, The European Commission has proposed 2030 as the latest date for the decommissioning of the legacy copper networks, in their White Paper - How to master Europe’s digital infrastructure needs?

    While some states have moved on decommissioning copper networks others need a kick up the proverbial to get their act together with a regulation, so that's the purpose if this public consultation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,258 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Draft BEREC Progress Report on managing copper network switch-off, Dec 2024.

    The report shows that currently only 8 EU Member states are on a migration and switch-off path that would lead to an expected switch-off by 2030.

    https://www.berec.europa.eu/en/all-documents/berec/reports/draft-berec-progress-report-on-managing-copper-network-switch-off

    Post edited by The Cush on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 889 ✭✭✭ArrBee


    Well after the storm at the start of the year, we've loads of copper lines down. Obviously no one is using them as they would have been fixed long ago!
    I wish they would come and remove them….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭uncle_sam_ie


    The copper phone lines around my village were recently stolen, and I suspect incidents like this may become more common in the future.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,258 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    There’s no AI staff replacement at Eir, says chief tech officer, and no copper switch-off until after 2030 | Irish Independent (paywalled article)

    Fergal McCann, Chief Technology Officer (CTO), eir



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Sounds very Trumpish. I suppose I'll have to go and buy a copy of this.

    <update>

     We’ve done a submission to Comreg in recent weeks, so we’re waiting for feedback to review that. [Fergal McCann]

    </update>

    Meanwhile, elsewhere in Ireland…..

    It should be noted that the timing of the switch-off is ultimately a commercial matter for Eir subject to it complying with the provisions of ComReg’s decision. However, the Department continues to engage with both ComReg, through a bilateral working group on Copper Switch Off, and Eir to keep apprised of any developments in this area.

    Post edited by clohamon on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,258 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    That article, before the paper goes for recycling

    1000005716.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 935 ✭✭✭feargantae


    I work for eir, though obviously not posting in any sort of official capacity (liomsa na tuairimí amháin etc!) but we lose a surprising amount of sales because of customers not being able to switch to VoBB due to having a monitored/panic alarm that is dependant on the old PSTN line. The sooner the copper switch off happens the better for eir's bottom line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭PixelCrafter


    I’d also just point out that the term ‘copper switch-off’ means different things to different telcos, commentators and even regulators.

    In some countries, they’re calling the move from PSTN/ISDN to IP-based technology 'the shutdown of the PSTN,' which is both accurate and not, depending on how you look at it.

    If we’re just talking about the PSTN/ISDN switchover, that is simply replacing TDM (Time Division Multiplexing)-based telephone switches (the digital ones that have run the traditional phone network since the ‘80s) with VoIP and soft switches - then as far as I’m aware, that’s pretty much done. What Eir and other operators have been doing for years has been moving people to VoBB (voice over broadband) while pruning the old exchanges down to smaller size, and then replacing what's left of them them with a Nokia MSAN platform which is entirely IP based and is basically "POTS emulation". It can still deliver POTS service, but it's just coming from a few racks of IP gear, not a big old 1980s telephone exchange that looks like a mainframe computer of the era. That's why you're getting all those warnings about alarm systems not liking phone lines etc.

    For the most part, the PSTN network is just obsolete to end users as a concept - whether it's TDM based or IP based doesn't really matter to most people, and is just naturally shrinking and disappearing anyway. Most residential users don't bother with landline numbers at all or are very content with just plugging a phone into the back of their broadband router, and businesses have largely moved to IP-based technologies like hosted PBX etc or SIP trunks that have replaced ISDN.

    But copper lines still carrying IP services (like VDSL i.e. FTTC fibre to the cabinet) are likely to hang around a bit longer yet, until full fibre to the home/premises (FTTH/P) is more widely rolled out. There are inevitably a % of premises that are going to take longer to connect to FTTH due to issues with direct buried cables and so on. Some of those households may also just abandon copper anyway and move to 5G+ while waiting for FTTH to arrive, as twisted pair copper technologies are increasingly inferior to mobile broadband.

    Ireland also has also got an issue with lower density housing, which means we'll always be slower than places with high density and apartment dwelling. We also have a bigger % of urban homes on CATV networks than most of Europe, so some of those legacy copper networks are actually capable of providing nearly fibre like services anyway. You'll see similar in Belgium for example. It's not reasonable to compare CATV and POTS copper services.

    You've also got a % of users who aren't going to move off VDSL unless and until they're incentivised or pushed to, as they'll be content with slower broadband and see no advantage in FTTH yet. Plenty of households that will just not really be that excited about it yet.

    But, I think we're ending up talking about two parallel issues in the way this is being discussed in Europe. One is about fibre rollout, the other is about PSTN/ISDN closure. They're only partially related and I just regularly see the two being confused in commentary.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭clohamon


    It seems, from FOI, that ComReg believes it is in a "deliberative process" (S.29 FOI Act) regarding the approval of Eircom's switch-off proposal. ComReg also asserts that information has been "obtained in confidence" (S.35 FOI Act) from Eircom. ComReg has therefore refused access to all records requested, as confirmed by its public interest test.

    From the schedule of refused FOI records; Eircom emailed ComReg (with attachments) on May 12th 2025 and ComReg emailed Eircom on 26th June 2025. Any correspondence later than 1st July would not have been covered by the FOI request.

    From ComReg's switch-off decision the timeframe for the deliberative process is vague and unlimited.

    ComReg does not believe that it is necessary or appropriate to set a maximum time period for its review of Eircom’s Switch-off Proposal in order to allow sufficient flexibility for any inquiry and engagement which may be required with Eircom.

    The good news is that no proposals for Alternative Comparable Products (ACPs), i.e alternatives to FTTH, had been submitted by Eircom by 1st July ; or at least ComReg asserts that it, ComReg, didn't possess any (S.15 FOI Act).

    The full FOI decision is here. (caveats apply, and the highlighting and redactions are mine)

    Post edited by clohamon on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,393 ✭✭✭10-10-20




Advertisement