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Presidential Election 2025

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,646 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    And we see the consequences of Russia's aggression in 2014 not being tackled then - with them emboldened to go further and invade the rest of Ukraine in 2022.

    Funnily enough - it's the likes of Connolly, Daly and Wallace that - instead of pointing at 2014, still insist that it's big, bad NATO that actually to blame for all of this Russian aggression, and that Russia should continue to be rewarded for their illegal invasions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,363 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    All elected reps give their views in the Dáil and outside it. I wouldn't agree with all of them, but they are absolutely within their rights to make them.
    You seem to be making this a crime of international proportions just because you don't agree with them and now you are insinuating that there is something nefarious 'between the lines'.

    I don't believe that for a second, I may not agree fully with her, but Catherine Connolly is hiding nothing. She is a public rep whose entire motivation for her entire career is to speak for those whose rights are abused. Whether that be human or civil rights.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I've no idea how this relates to anything I've written and will not be legitimised with an answer.

    I'm a potential voter and yes, regardless of the topic, a candidate that has not said what I want said by a candidate - well that is a valid basis for deciding how to vote. That is democracy. I have read sufficient of what Connolly has said to be able to form an opinion of her position. Instead of taking the opportunity to affirm support for Ukraine in defending itself against invasion, she takes the opportunity to criticise those assisting Ukraine.

    And I am pointing out to other potential voters that they should pay closer attention to the statements made to judge for themselves whether they actually do align with the views they would like to see in a candidate - that is sound advice on any major topic.
    They should pay attention also to the views of other politicians fully endorsed by them eg in this case Connolly's endorsement of Daly.
    Again, that is not remotely a 'witch hunt', that is democracy.

    This is not some minor topic she has never or rarely discussed, she is a TD and has had many opportunities to say these things. Pointedly she has not.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,363 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    still insist that it's big bad NATO that actually to blame for all of this Russian aggression

    Can you link to Connolly saying NATO is to blame for ALL Russian aggression?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,363 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That is democracy. I have read sufficient of what Connolly has said to be able to form an opinion of her position. Instead of taking the opportunity to affirm support for Ukraine in defending itself against invasion, she takes the opportunity to criticise those assisting Ukraine.

    Connolly is fully supportive of the aid and relief and accommodation we have given Ukraine while calling out the Russians as illegal invaders.
    Why would somebody who passionately believes in military neutrality be expected to call for military aid?

    Your insinuation that there is something 'between the lines' in what Connolly says is a tactic used in witch hunts, I'm afraid. 'There's no smoke without fire' etc.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Is it a crime to decide whether to vote for someone based on their public statements?
    Nope.
    So let's drop the nonsense about a 'crime of international proportions'.
    Connolly can make the statements as a TD of course, and nowhere have I said otherwise - only that voters can make up their mind based on the content of them. And the content of them also encompasses what is omitted.

    I am pointing out politicians may in their statements create misleading impressions, especially those that are vague \ aspirational and not connected to concrete commitments or actions. Consciously or subconsciously. And that a test of whether the politician's views align with yours is to watch out for what is not said.
    Nefarious hardly seems an accurate description of that scenario.

    "a public rep whose entire motivation for her entire career is to speak for those whose rights are abused. Whether that be human or civil rights."

    That is your opinion only. I note this as you seem to think it is important to point that out in your own replies.
    I don't know if that is her motivation. But there is a saying - the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
    It is entirely fair comment to point out that outcome is not guaranteed from intentions and can cause the opposite outcome.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,363 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That is your opinion only

    Exactly. A voter who you haven't convinced.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,500 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Is it possible to put up a list of candidates and rumoured candidates to be updated as needs be?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    So if Ireland was invaded, she wouldn't call for military aid from friendly powers?
    Military neutrality does not mean that assistance cannot be given or received if attacked.
    Military neutrality does not mean Ukraine cannot militarily resist illegal invasion - so where does Connolly affirm Ukraine's right to do so? Or Ireland's for that matter?
    And the right to resist is worthless without the capability to do so.

    Connolly is on record as saying she has 'a huge problem' with the EU in relation to their measures to increase military aid to Ukraine and boost the military capability of its members.

    She has publicly criticised countries who came to Ukraine's aid.

    So, how does she imagine Ukraine can resist Russia's illegal invasion without military aid from friendly democracies?

    So it appears she passionately believes… in leaving countries defenceless against illegal invasions - as she criticises the measures countries are taking to protect themselves.

    That's not a witch hunt, that is entirely fair comment on the positions of a public representative.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,646 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Connolly has not "already been nominated" - nobody has.

    She currently has commitments from enough Oireachtas Members to nominate her when the time comes - but until that time comes those commitments could be withdrawn.

    Similarly, Mairead McGuinness looks likely to have enough nominations from FG TDs and Senators to have her nominated, but until she is formally nominated the party could choose to withdraw support from her.

    Nobody can actually be nominated to run until the writ of election is moved, and until then nobody is a guaranteed nominee.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,363 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,363 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Questions only Connolly can answer should be addressed to her.

    Connolly is on record as saying she has 'a huge problem' with the EU in relation to their measures to increase military aid to Ukraine and boost the military capability of its members.

    *Her 'problem' seems to be: she is critical of the fact that none of the Peace Facility' (EPF) funding given by the EU is actually going to help find a peaceful solution.

    *Nobody said, Ukraine has no right to defend itself.

    *Nowhere have I seen Connolly criticise countries 'for coming to Ukraine's aid'. She may have criticised countries that also aided Ukraine for other reasons though.

    * I have also not seen her saying countries should be left defenceless against illegal invasions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    You are the one representing her position and challenging my criticism of her.
    I raise the question to point out the contradictions and issues with her position.
    I'll rephrase it, it is unclear from her statements if she thinks Ireland should seek outside aid if attacked.
    She outlines no credible position as to how democratic countries such as Lithuania, Estonia could defend themselves or maintain their independence outside of a military pact given they have been subject to Soviet domination and threats from a revanchist Russia.

    She didn't say - Ukraine has the right to defend itself, and for that assistance to be aided by friendly powers.

    She has criticised non-EU countries that came to Ukraine's aid, and has criticised the EU plan to assist Ukraine.
    She has not articulated what alternative mechanism would be acceptable to her.
    Net result… nothing concrete in terms of Ukraine's attempts to resist an illegal invasion militarily.

    "Funding for a peaceful solution"? That shows how disconnected from reality she is.
    There is just so much wrong with that statement it is hard to unpick it all. As if the only thing needed to unlock a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine is EU funding, and not concrete support for Ukraine \ measures against Russia to bring Russia to the negotiating table and a lasting peace that leaves Ukraine secure from future invasions.
    Leaving Europe defenceless against Russian threats won't ensure peace. That's a peaceful solution so that a war doesn't start.

    Similarly, she has not articulated alternative measures that could improve the defences of Ireland or such countries against illegal invasions… or even accepted the need for such measures.
    So the point stands.

    All she has are criticisms and empty words… hurling from the ditch.

    She offers no real credible alternative.
    Speaking truth to power?
    Truth on its own is no use without power behind it. The position she represents has no power behind it when faced with the likes of Russia.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,216 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    It would be so unreliable from the outset as to be not worth bothering.

    Things will begin to crystallise in about a month from now. Meanwhile Paddy Power has you covered for a list of randomers.

    Btw, there are another two dozen names out to 500/1.

    1000038262.jpg 1000038263.jpg 1000038264.jpg 1000038265.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Michael Flatley 10-1… what!

    I'm hoping that's a sign it is total guesswork at this stage \ no money down.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,363 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I'll rephrase it, it is unclear from her statements if she thinks Ireland should seek outside aid if attacked.

    Ask her. I don't know what her opinion is on it. I don't see her saying anywhere that Ukraine shouldn't seek outside aid.

    She outlines no credible position as to how democratic countries such as Lithuania, Estonia could defend themselves or maintain their independence outside of a military pact given they have been subject to Soviet domination and threats from a revanchist Russia.

    Again, I am not aware of what she has said on this, if anything.

    She has criticised non-EU countries that came to Ukraine's aid,

    Where? And was it specifically for giving aid?

    and has criticised the EU plan to assist Ukraine.

    She has criticised the EU for not using some of the aid to seek peace.

    Leaving Europe defenceless against Russian threats won't ensure peace. That's a peaceful solution so that a war doesn't start.

    Who has said Europe should be left defenceless?

    Similarly, she has not articulated alternative measures that could improve the defences of Ireland or such countries against illegal invasions… or even accepted the need for such measures.

    She has praised the Defence Forces here and criticised the lack of funding they receive to eh…defend the country.

    Again, 'credibility' is in the eyes and ears of whoever is listening.

    What she does with her position is to implore those with the 'power' here to do things differently, which is all she can do as an independent.
    As she has been vilified for being a Russian stooge/sympathiser without any evidence of that, she is definitely effective. The knives are out in the consensus and lines will be read between whether there is anything there or not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,147 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Things will begin to crystallise in about a month from now. 

    Or whenever Mary Lou declares her hand…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,595 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I agree with you that NATO and the West should have responded more strongly and aggressively to Russia's annexation of Crimea in 2014, and that a failure to do so then had consequences.

    What puzzles me is that you, like Catherine Connolly, then go on to support a weaker approach to the subsequent Russian invasion of the rest of Ukraine.

    You cannot criticise NATO for being too weak in 2014, and ask them to be weaker again in 2025.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    That's the point - she hasn't said anything concrete or realistic or positive. Always only negative \ criticisms \ hand wringing. She seems to imagine wars can be stopped by sheer force of will of people. It is just hurling from the ditch. She articulates no concrete positions for how a dictator like Putin, who launches illegal invasions and has major military capability, can be 'stopped' and brought to the negotiating table.

    Has she actually criticised the lack of funding for the Defence Forces, for actual military equipment?
    Or pay, conditions, houses etc?
    Big difference.

    This is a direct quote from her Oireachtas speech cited earlier.

    The military-industrial complex that Europe is in the middle of, with a European Defence Fund, a European Defence Agency and Partnership for Peace, which is a travesty of the English language because it is a partnership for war.

    I'll leave readers of the thread to decide if those are the words of someone who is ok with the general plan to increase military spending and capability in Europe (including assistance to Ukraine) but takes issue only with:
    "criticised the EU for not using some of the aid to seek peace."

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,363 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady





    That's the point - she hasn't said anything concrete or realistic. S

    What's Mairead McGuinness's view on this, or Michael Flatley's?

    I don't know, and I am not going to read between the lines either.

    She seems to imagine wars can be stopped by sheer force of will of people

    I don't agree. She seems to think wars can be stopped by combatants doing what one of the present combatants (the invaded) one wants to do and the US wants them both to do - call a ceasefire and enter negotiations. Some might say, Catherine Connolly was way ahead of the field on that.

    The military-industrial complex that Europe is in the middle of, with a European Defence Fund, a European Defence Agency and Partnership for Peace, which is a travesty of the English language because it is a partnership for war.

    I never said it was her only criticism/problem. I have absolutely no problem proceeding with caution on what is motivating the formation of the above. Connolly doesn't trust the motivations.
    I. and I am sure, other readers of this thread and in the electorate are decidedly not ok with increasing military spending and capability. We have seen wars orchestrated before with weapons of mass destruction scaremongering. Russia can be contained with what is already in place if the will is there and any aggression is nipped in the bud and they are actually isolated for it.
    Read a few of the NATO threads and the war in Ukraine ones. The scaremongering a few years ago was ripe stuff.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,385 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I don't agree. She seems to think wars can be stopped by combatants doing what one of the present combatants (the invaded) one wants to do and the US wants them both to do - call a ceasefire and enter negotiations. Some might say, Catherine Connolly was way ahead of the field on that.

    Given the war hasn't stopped despite Ukraine proposing a ceasefire for months now, she is quite clearly wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Did Michael Flatley or Mairead McGuinness make speeches criticising the EU defence fund?
    Flatley is just flying a kite.
    McGuinness has given no public indication criticising the EU plan. Connolly has.
    This isn't even good whataboutery.

    Yeah and how is that US plea working? Not at all.
    And that US plea is backed, supposedly, by a threat for further sanctions on Russia and assistance for Ukraine should Russia not come to the negotiating table.
    Connolly and those making similar arguments to her offer no incentive for Russia to come to the negotiating table, just empty words.

    In an earlier post you said:
    "Her 'problem' seems to be: she is critical of the fact that none of the Peace Facility' (EPF) funding given by the EU is actually going to help find a peaceful solution."

    Now you are saying:
    "I never said it was her only criticism/problem…"

    I have put her words up on the thread. Readers can judge for themselves how well her comments align with their views and whether they think it is reasonable for Europe to increase defence spending at this time.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,363 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Time will tell.

    But wouldn't it have been creditworthy had the world's power brokers called for it long ago and all the death and destruction stopped?
    Even if it doesn't work, I'd rather stand with those who want to do the morally correct thing.

    I am consistent on this point, the primary blame for any conflict war is with the aggressor/invader, blame also attaches to those who have the power to not allow the conflict/war situation evolve, those who provoke it, and who don't use their power to avoid/stop death and destruction. Blame also attaches to those who make it worse and to those who do not take chances for peace, if they arise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,064 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    That might be your view but I see absolutely nothing to suggest Connolly shares it eg nipping aggression in the bud, isolating Russia.

    Without that her words are empty.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,646 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    So short purely because 1) he's actually claimed to be seeking a nomination and 2) someone has likely staked €10 on it - which would be approximately €10 more than anyone has staked on most of the other people on the list.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,028 ✭✭✭✭Seathrun66


    So you disagree with her and are stating that we have an army? That 6,322 personnel constitute a force that will repel an invader. You've surely grasped that's what she's saying and that were the likes of the UK, US, Russia or China to invade the conflict wouldn't last long.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,385 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They did call for it. They called for Russia to go back to Russia and stop their illegal invasion repeatedly. They have put significant pressure on them to do so to no avail. They repeatedly engaged with Russia prior to the invasion to try and get him not to do it. Russia doesn't want to have a ceasefire, they want to conquer as much of Ukraine as possible.

    But apparently, all that was really needed was for the Irish government to be a bit more neutral and use its voice. Naïve is about the kindest word I can think of to describe the position.

    You keep saying she doesn't take sides as if it is a morally good position instead of a morally vacuous one. The correct side is to enable Ukraine to defend themselves - that is the only way anyone can actually live in peace. And as regards the presidency, this is where she is most out of kilter with the Irish populace who overwhelming blame Russia for the invasion and think the onus is on them to stop (cause…duh). Connolly is disparaging the very mechanisms that Europe is developing to both aid Ukraine and defend Europe in the future. Because she seems to think the whole thing could be solved with some nice words over a cup of tea. Her understanding of the situation is pathetically poor - which isn't a great sign for a supposed chief diplomat.

    Why can't we all just get along is not a foreign policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,363 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Did Michael Flatley or Mairead McGuinness make speeches criticising the EU defence fund?

    Why would they need to criticise the EU to have a view on the defence of Lithuania Estonia etc?

    You are setting up ridiculous points of attack here, it speaks volumes.

    Yeah and how is that US plea working? Not at all.

    Well he has just upped the ante, so let's see.
    The point is, a ceasefire is seen as something worthwhile and worth getting now.

    And that US plea is backed, supposedly, by a threat for further sanctions on Russia and assistance for Ukraine should Russia not come to the negotiating table.

    Connolly and those making similar arguments to her offer no incentive for Russia to come to the negotiating table, just empty words.

    Connolly has no power to threaten sanctions. She was calling on those in power to pressure for a ceasefire and negotiation

    In an earlier post you said:
    "Her 'problem' seems to be: she is critical of the fact that none of the Peace Facility' (EPF) funding given by the EU is actually going to help find a peaceful solution."

    Now you are saying:
    "I never said it was her only criticism/problem…"

    Where are you seeing me writing 'this is the only problem she has'?

    The Irish people will judge her suitability, correct. Never said anything different. All I said was of those nominated, she is my choice. You only have one as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,363 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Might be controversial but I can see him appealing to some folk. Especially if the political heads run dour campaigns.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,385 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm stating that we have now, and always have had an army as the primary constituent of our defence forces. It is not an opinion, it is just a statement of fact.

    She absolutely isn't saying that the conflict wouldn't last long if we were invaded, there is nothing to suggest that context whatsoever in her statement, she is trying to suggest that we would never be an offensive power because to her clearly limited understanding, that is all an "army" is for.



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