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Doctor being asked to assist aka Good Samaritan

  • 28-07-2025 11:40AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭


    Just curious,

    Person takes unwell and a "passing" doctor is called on to assist the person.

    Could the person subsequently take a claim against the doctor is things turn out badly?



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,461 ✭✭✭Allinall


    I don't see why, unless it could be shown that the doctor was negligent in some way.

    It's no different to making an appointment and going to see your GP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭z80CPU
    Darth Randomer


    No.

    The onus is on the randomer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,509 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    isn’t the key factor , of the Good Samaritan act that there is no expectancy of payment.

    So if the Doctor helps without expecting payment , it would apply to him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,888 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I seem to remember something like this came up in a first aid course and the basic idea is that as long as you followed your training and did your best then you aren't liable for any negative outcomes

    So from a first aid standpoint, if you were trained to provide CPR, judged the patient required CPR and provided it to the best of your ability then you're okay legally.

    Where you could end up liable would be if you did something you hadn't been trained for like doing a heart thump or punch, which is no longer taught or advised

    In general, malpractice cases for doctors revolve around them not following their own training or best practices, or they had some diminished capacity to provide care competently (i.e. they were drunk)

    In fact, given the scenario above, I imagine the doctor would face more negative consequences if they refused to provide care when they could have

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,695 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    How is it identified that the passer-by is a medical doctor?

    If I see a person who unwell and needs immediate assistance, I'm calling an ambulance. Not a randomer who claims they are an X.

    Arguably the liability is on whoever asked the person to assist without verifying their suitability.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭AnRothar




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,888 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I was wondering about this myself, I don't think doctors carry around some kind of identification card

    The patient (or person caring for them) would basically be taking the word of whoever claimed to be a doctor

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,950 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Doctors have professional indemnity insurance for this very reason. Things sometimes dot work out. Either a mistake is made or a chance has to be taken. A doctor coming upon a collapsed person will not have a medical history of that person, or be in a position to make a very accurate diagnosis and will only be able to try and stabilize the person pending transfer to hospital. A doctor will be liable in negligence unless what they did accords with a respected body of opinion within the profession.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,790 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    you'd have to be wary of creating an environment where a doctor would refuse to get involved for fear of litigation.

    also, is there a code of conduct for doctors which might impel them to become involved in such a situation?

    If I see a person who unwell and needs immediate assistance, I'm calling an ambulance. Not a randomer who claims they are an X.

    ringing for an ambulance doesn't strike me as the best way of getting 'immediate assistance'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,888 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    The typical example is the hippocratic oath which people often believe contains the words "first, do no harm"

    It doesn't, but there is reference to providing care to the sick when entering people's property

    Depending on your interpretation, this could mean the requirement to provide care where you find someone in need if it

    However it's important to remember the hippocratic oath isn't an actual oath taken by doctors. In general most doctors abide by a code of ethics for their country of practice, which is often based in part on the hippocratic oath

    I don't know what code of ethics doctors in Ireland adhere to, however I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't some provision that they should provide care when they can do so

    As regards what a passerby should do if they (for example) saw an unconscious person on the street, calling an ambulance is absolutely near the top of the priority list

    Its important to know your abilities and your limits. If you have no first aid training of any kind then you should not try to administer first aid without supervision as you could make the problem worse

    One example I remember from first aid class was if the patient has a wound with something sticking out of it (e.g. a piece of metal or glass). The instructor was very emphatic that you should not try to remove the object as it could cause more damage. The objective then is to stop the bleeding and stabilise the patient until paramedics aarrive

    In that context even a doctor could be limited in what they can do as they probably aren't carrying around a medical bag of equipment and medicines

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,082 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Story in the Irish Times just today about a passerby doctor who kept a stabbing victim alive until an ambulance could arrive: https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2025/07/28/man-tracked-ex-partners-car-before-attempting-to-murder-her-court-hears/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,841 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    "ringing for an ambulance doesn't strike me as the best way of getting 'immediate assistance'."

    It's absolutely the best way of getting immediate assistance. They will get an ambulance moving to you AND will also provide direct and immediate advice, instruction and support by phone - up to and including CPR instructions if that's what the patient needs.

    If a defib is needed and is available locally, steps should be taken to get that brought to the patient. If there are other trained carers, whether first aiders, paramedics, medics or others available locally, steps can be taken to get those resources to come to the patient.

    What's a better option?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,790 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    to clarify - the context of the quote was someone seeimg to refuse the help of a passing doctor (or someone who claimed to be so); i would regard that far more as being of 'immediate assistance' than ringing for an ambulance. obviously, ringing for an ambulance is a given anyway - and i would assume that if the person on the emergency services line was made aware of the presence of a doctor, that they probably would assume the doctor would take the lead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭con747


    Where live I think I would rather a passing doctor have a go at saving me than wait the 45 minutes dying or being dead before an ambulance might get to me here in the sticks. Might be all good in the cities but not here.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 54,961 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Exactly as I was told during a course on CPR and Choking recently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,953 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    It's not an either/or thing. You can call an ambulance and also accept help from any medic who happens to be available to help.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭con747


    I never said it was, I was saying that if someone could help me there and then I would rather that than wait for nearly an hour for an ambulance. It was more in response to Andrews post stating ringing an ambulance was the best way to get immediate assistance. Not where I live it's not.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,695 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Yes it is. You get immediate guidance on the phone from a person who is skilled in giving advice in remotely managing in-the-field critical situations.

    Some doctors are great at things like that. Some are useless outside a clinical setting supported by a full team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Would it change your mind if the immediate person on the phone giving advice was a call center worker reading off a sheet? You don't usually speak to a medic, you speak to a call center employee with no medical training. Emergency call takers work for a call center provider like Conduit or Fexco depending on who has the contract.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,841 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Not true. If you ask for an ambulance, you get through to either DFB in Dublin or National Ambulance Service. You'll be speaking to a qualified paramedic, who has particular training in telephone support.

    What's your chances in finding a passing doctor skilled in emergency aid, with the right equipment to do the job? That would be a fairly unusual situation. You might be waiting for an ambulance in the sticks, but it's still likely to be the fastest option, unless the patient can be safely moved directly.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭con747


    The OP asked "Person takes unwell and a "passing" doctor is called on to assist the person."

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭con747


    I would rather a doctor being hands on there and then and not be depending on someone giving instructions to someone who has no experience and could make matters worse. Each to their own though.

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,790 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    a lot of the above discussion may be confused in the sense that some may have been responding to the seeming reluctance of one poster to accept help from a passerby who claimed to be a doctor; and some might not have been responding to that discussion, so the points made made be responding to different contexts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,718 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Ad regards a medical or nursing professional and oaths etc it's in the code of practice that you absolutely should stop to help.unless a person more qualified already has it under control.

    Whether people who are on deaths door potentially would refuse this help is a bizarre argument as is the discussion of whether any medical professional would not be capable of handling first aid at the scene .

    Nobody can reasonably expect more than that without equipment at the side of the road and it is part of one's continuing registration to maintain ACLS or CPR training every 2 years at least .

    I have attended a few accidents ,small and big ,sometimes called for personally , and would be terrified the whole time , but would rather be of help if possible and generally speaking it's something like holding an airway open or putting pressure on a bleeding injury which is something I would be well trained to do .

    As regards the general public ,people should stop and check if any aid is needed even if only to call for help ) people may not physically be able to leave an injured person to do so so very important to offer ) and not do anything unless they know what to do or are instructed by a qualified person .

    Yes it would be a randomer instructing them , but I think it's rare for people to declare that "I am a nurse" or "I am a doctor" in these situations ..I have never come across that ever ;) but I am sure there may be a one in a thousand possibility of that happening ...somewhere …

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,790 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    I did CPR training over 30 years ago and have never come close to needing it. My wife's sister in law did it a couple of years ago and within a few months was performing CPR on someone who sadly didn't make it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,718 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    At least she tried . Very hard though.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,191 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    You couldn't rule out legal action for refusal to assist either.

    12 years ago a young girl died on O'Connell Street after her peanut allergy was triggered and she went into anaphylactic shock. A nearby pharmacy were asked to provide an epipen of (epinephrine autoinjection), but refused to give one out without prescription and the child died within minutes.

    The pharmacist and the company were sued and settled for €50,000 without any admission of liability.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    They certainly could, and the claim would have to be met by the doctor who assisted.

    However whether such a claim would be successful is another matter entirely. The civil liability act 1961 (as amended) affords significant protections to individuals providing voluntary assistance in the context of an emergency.

    Unless they were found to have acted with gross negligence, it is unlikely that an action for damages would succeed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    Most doctors won’t have professional indemnity insurance as they are employed under a contract of service to the HSE or other healthcare provider.



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