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Hamas strike on Israel

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 705 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    Question:

    So, just to be clear, on OCT 7th 2023 when the Islamic Jihadist terrorist organisation Hamas streamed across the border with murderous intent you were all hung-ho for that incursion up to the point that they started killing civilians?

    Answer:

    Yep.

    Where's my misrepresentation?

    One of your buddies is an admitted Hamas supporter. You deal with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,143 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Starvation is not the only thing that causes emaciation.

    The photo of the emaciated child on the front page of today's Daily Express has a congenital condition.

    The following tweet is part of a thread on the issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,506 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You are correct.

    "Understanding" why Hamas don't release the hostages is a cop-out. Anyway, Macron has pulled that excuse apart.

    There is a real opportunity for Palestinians now. Release the hostages, demilitarize Hamas and France and the UK will ensure a Palestinian state. @markodaly has correctly talked about how badly Palestinians have let themselves be governed.

    Going by the reactions of some posters on here, the Palestinians will again let history pass them by without seizing the opportunity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 705 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    Can you not grasp the reality of the situation? You are not protecting anyone in Gaza by holding onto the hostages.

    Has life got better for anyone in Gaza over the last year by refusing to release them?

    After a solid year, it's time to try a new tack.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,869 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Well, your support for Hamas is very clear in your post - I even quoted you. They are your heros apparantly:

    Here it is again just in case you forgot what you wrote:

    'Heroic defenders of the Nation', bravely safeguarding the people of Gaza



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,869 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Where to begin… I'll just ask you one question:

    Why is there an ICC arrest warrant for Yoav Gallant for War Crimes?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,506 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Subject to Hamas being demilitarised and the hostages released, no, there aren't any posters who would argue against that, but there seem to be a lot of posters who are resisting the rest of what Macron, posters who cling to "understanding" why Hamas won't release the hostages and who resist the idea of a demilitarised Hamas. One has to wonder why posters aren't rowing in behind Macron's demands.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,506 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I am on board with the Macron plan. Release the hostages, Ceasefire, demiliatarize Hamas, recognise Palestine, create a Palestinian state which is demilitarised.

    Are you on board with that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,451 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Did you ever look up the definition of “hostage”?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 705 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    This is the essence of the situation.

    I'm always optomistic at these junctures. A new path for a new future emerges, for everyone.

    Arab nations stand by with a mooted 53 billion aid package to rebuild Gaza. There is no reason why, along with EU and USA money, that Gaza couldn't be building 60-70k housing units by the end of next year annually.

    It could be a new model city, but ideology is far more likely to dictate events.

    The core issue for a lot of people on here is that the end to the war is only imaginable under Hamas conditions, with a black eye or bloody nose for Israel. Israel must be seen to have been defeated in some manner.

    It's a pity because there are so many ways in which the entire area could be peaceful and prospering.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,869 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Many posters are fine with Macron's demands. No idea where you get "a lot of posters are resisting" from.

    But we can speculate as much as we like. The UN GA will give the only answer that matters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,506 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The reactions on here today have been quite shocking.

    Macron's letter points out a very clear and clever route to peace, yet posters here are not jumping on board with it, for what seems to me to be blind visceral hatred of Israel and Israelis.

    There is an opportunity for peace, Hamas must take it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,506 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The UN General Assembly is pitiful. Sad that it has gone this way, but it has no credibility anymore.

    France have stepped in with a robust and clear proposal for a way forward, time to get on board with it, without equivocation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,451 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    What has the Israeli reaction to the French proposals been?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,869 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Sure - let's all gather in a circle, hold hands and sing kumbaya. Just like everyone did, including the Nazis, in 1945.

    Just don't mention the Israeli genocide…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,869 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Predictably apoplectic with rage.

    Surprised Israeli F17s aren't already on their way to bomb French nuclear installations so France can't pose an "existential threat".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,869 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    So exactly who is France going to recognise the State of Palestine to?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 705 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    Sure - let's all gather in a circle, hold hands and sing kumbaya.

    You can if you want. Be about as useful as your other contributions to the thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,869 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Have to say, that did actually give me a laugh. Fair play to you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,349 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    I had a few thoughts today after France declared its support for the 2 state solution and where I see it all ultimately heading…

    Netanyahu's domestic popularity is declining, so he relies heavily on the support of the far-right to remain in power (the issue that matters to him most). Both he and his cabinet are staunchly opposed to a two-state solution. Now that France has officially endorsed the two-state approach, alarm bells are ringing for Netanyahu's coalition. This move has already sparked a rush in the Knesset to push for the annexation of the West Bank.

    There is absolutely no chance a Palestinian state will be created on Netanyahu's watch, he has spent decades denouncing it.

    https://imeu.org/article/netanyahu-putting-an-end-to-the-oslo-accords-the-two-state-solution

    In my view, the following scenarios are likely to unfold (though perhaps not in this precise order):

    Escalation in the West Bank leading to Annexation:
    As international support for a two-state solution grows, far-right groups and settlers (feeling threatened) will likely intensify their actions against Palestinians in the West Bank. This will provoke resistance from Palestinians, giving the Israeli government a pretext to occupy and militarize the remaining 40% of the West Bank that it does not already control. Under the guise of protecting settlers, Israel will effectively annex these territories "on security grounds."

    OR

    Direct Annexation:
    Israel might simply proceed with the annexation of the West Bank, again citing security concerns. Palestinians could be allowed to remain but would be systematically denied property rights due to alleged paperwork or permit issues, while settlers face no such obstacles. This would inevitably spark backlash from the local Palestinian population.

    In both scenarios, Palestinians may be forced to leave, reminiscent of the first Nakba. Historically, Israel has used the fog of war to expand territory, as seen in 1948 and 1967. For this reason, I find the first scenario most likely, although immediate annexation is also possible, since the Knesset has already passed a symbolic annexation motion: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/7/23/israeli-parliament-approves-symbolic-motion-on-west-bank-annexation

    As for Gaza, I suspect it too will eventually be annexed under the same rationale of security, although whether this happens before or after the West Bank is uncertain.

    The international community will protest, and Israel may become even more of a pariah state, facing threats of sanctions. However, the US is likely to shield Israel from any real consequences, and critics will be dismissed or accused of anti-Semitism. Over time, world attention will drift elsewhere, the two-state solution will fade from practical consideration, and the idea of Palestinian statehood will be consigned to history.

    I believe Palestinians will ultimately be forced to leave (or "voluntarily emigrate", a phrase already used in relation to Gaza), simply because demographic trends suggest the Muslim population (now 6 million compared to 7 million Jews) will soon overtake the Jewish population, a prospect deeply troubling to Israel's current leadership.

    For the record, I am strongly pro–two state solution, but I believe events are moving in this direction:

    • Gaza is already unliveable
    • Israel controls 60% of the West Bank, and the latest steps in the Knesset and ongoing settlement expansion only reinforce this trajectory
    • Netanyahu, meanwhile, continues to portray existential threats such as Iran to maintain support among the right and play on the fears of Israelis.

    With elections scheduled for October 2026, I expect any major annexations will occur (or at least be well underway) before then.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 705 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    It is consistantly amazing the antagonistic response to anyone who either suggests a peaceful solution, or who posts any latest news concerning same.

    A large cohort on here just seem to think this war will go on forever and have no interest in any possible ending.

    Macron, (or the French) is not a lightweight. Any proposal from the Frence should be taken seriously.

    The UN as you mentioned, on the other hand, is pitiful.

    I think all sides would agree that at the end of this conflict a serious look has to be taken at the continued existance of the UN in its current guise, because it is, to my mind, simply not fit for purpose anymore. It isn't really taken seriously by anyone as a major player in these kinds of situations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,451 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    I’m confused. Why are some posters saying Hamas must accept the proposals but not mentioned Israel’s reaction to them. What am I missing?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 705 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    On that note:

    I'm off to watch Happy Gilmore 2.

    To be honest, not expecting much.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,451 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    If the West Bank is formerly (and illegally) annexed by Israel, will the Palestinians living there be given voting rights in Israeli elections?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    Why would you think I have the answers on how to get peace and stability in the Middle East?

    I have asked multiple times to all defending the IDF (including yourself) if you condemn the actions of Israel and the IDF over the last two years?

    Not one of you have answered. By your logic as you’ve avoided the question, you don’t condemn them.

    You therefore support the murder and staving of innocent children. Thanks for clarifying that.

    If that’s not correct as I wouldn’t just make something up, you can clarify your stance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,869 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Do you think the ICJ case against Israel (as regards the directive for them to vacate all illegally occupied territories and pay reparations) will have any impact on your thesis?

    If not, we can all kiss the ICJ, ICC and UN goodbye and it'll be a free-for-all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,869 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Your missing that fact that those supporting Israel are pure hypocrites. They are well able to hold two diametrically opposed viewpoints at exactly the same time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,143 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Have you not considered the possibility of a prosecutor committing misconduct? Have you not heard of miscarriages of justice?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,869 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    You clearly have absolutely no idea how the ICC works. Or even the general legal system.

    You destroyed your own credibility some time back. Are you back for seconds?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,349 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    I think this Israeli government will do what it likes (or feels it has to), and will have the US backing for the next 3 years until Trump is out.

    Nothing the ICJ has put forward had any effect so far, and the UN has been accused of "supporting Hamas" so there is that.



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