Hamas strike on Israel

Just curious, how many shekels do you get per post?

Yet, that doesn't answer the question. What rule of law will get Israel back its hostages?

It does; Israel were due to have the hostages returned in March but saw fit to break an agreement and continue violence. They've demonstrated that their prioirity is categorically not about the return of the hostages.

You've also side stepped the point on the hostages Israel hold; why are they not a priority for you?

Israel have also been bombing and shooting people for two and a half years now; how has that solved the return of the hostages? It hasn't but that is because that isn't their main focus.

Are Hamas playing by the same rules that Israel is meant to abide by? This is asymmetric warfare after all, the rule of law doesn't really apply, unfortunately.

Hamas are a terrorist organisation; It's like asking if a robber is playing by the same rules the Gardai must abide by.

"Unfortunately" the rule of law does apply, you don't get to pick and choose when it does. To even suggest it as a legitmate argument is tatnmount support for all sorts of banana republics. We're being told that Israel is some symbol of democratic, progressive state alone in the wilderness of backwards lawless states; it seems you're ok with Israel flitting between the two as/when suits them

Hamas made a bet that Israel would be backed into a corner due to these rules, and made a gamble on it that they could extract many concessions from Israel after the capture of so many hostages. Israel was not keen to play that game any more, so up-ended the board, and the gloves came off.

It does not permit them to commit genocidal acts acts the population as a whole. It's again apparent that you excuse Israel of taking hostages and expecting no repercussions for their multi generational actions

The results are sadly self-evident for the average Gazan stuck in the strip.

The results will be continued fanaticism and strife for the two peoples. When you continue to oppress generations of people, you give them little reason to live a fruitful life. Then we simple see a continuation of what's happened before. Continuous meddling in the middles east has led to this.

Israel were aware of the attack; October 7th was their opportunity to exact a plan that wouldn't have been acceptable before.

The hard brutal cold facts of 'might is right' came to be the new 'rule of law'. Israel has more guns and weapons, and could quite easily finish off everyone in the strip. Yet, Hamas still keeps fighting.. for what? Even its Arab neighbours know the game is up and that Hamas will not be running the strip after the war is over. They have yet to accept that they lost.

Ah this 'ole nonsensical "might is right" line; if that's the case should we just accept it in all walks of life. It's easy to trot out when it doesn't affect you.

Should we simply remove all supports for Ukraine and sanctions on Russia? Put it down to "might is right" and sure lets see who wins irrespective of the humanitarian cost?

Surely we should drop the Good Friday agreement and return Northern Ireland to a divisive state wherein one side of the populace had control and the other should simply accept their lot? Had the british army bomber us in to oblivion due to the actions of terrorist groups would you have sat there and said "sure might is right" and "the gloves are off"? Internment on any nefarious reason ok with you?

If they woke up tomorrow and conceded the facts that they lost the war, released the hostages, this nightmare for the average Gazan would be over.

And there's the insinuation again; Hamas and the average Gazan are not the same.

Sure, you could counter and say, sure Israel could just retreat and let bygones be bygones, until Hamas or some other form of it regroup, rearm, and we are back to the same situation in 5-10 years time, and on it goes…

Israeli actions are guaranteeing a furthering of militant causes later on through their current actions.

The one hope I have from this mess is that Gazans and Palestinians as a whole recognise that there is no winner for those who chose violence against their Israeli enemy. They are simply too strong, and will use whatever means necessary to win, more means than almost any other Liberal Democracy.

That's easy to say when you live in a civilised society. When you're a Palestinian with little to live for and see your homes routinely bulldozed, family attacked/killed; it's been demonstrated throughout centuries of conflict that violence is the answer they go back to. What options do you leave people but violence.

As I said before, Internationalism and the rules-based order are dead.

Utter nonsense to excuse a one sided conflict.

It had a good airing over the last 60 or so years, but that world is over. Israel knows this, as does its enemies and the bigger powers. We in Ireland are still clinging on to the fallacy.

More nonsense. To state the Ireland alone is the only nation 'clinging' to the rule of law and international diplomacy is willful stupidity.

Don't Israel claim the IDF to be the world's most moral army though? Shouldn't they be held to higher standards given they are supplied weapons of mass destruction by the US?

Very odd if Israel, a country, would not be expected to act to a higher standard than a terrorist organisation. And the conflation of the palestinians with Hamas is very dumb. Half the Palestinian population are not under their control on the West Bank.

There you go again conflating Hamas and Palestinians being one and the same. If Israel is, as its supporters claim is a beacon of democracy in the region, then surely it is incumbent upon them to not sink to the level of Hamas. You should be holding them to a higher standard blanch152. You will surely then agree with the following

They should not be engaging in things like collective punishment and starving a populace to achieve a political end. Also seeing as the IDF proclaims to be the most moral army in the world why does the Daiyah doctrine exist?

Shouldn't soliders accused of wrongdoing be held to account in a functioning democracy. Why is it we rarely see Israeli soliders prosecuted when they commit criminal acts? Also why are ministers who have made genocidal statements allowed to remain in office. Shouldn't they be fired?

It's yet another example where Islamism used democracy as a Trojan horse to take over. The Christians in Gaza had a rough time under HAMAS as well as other civilians.

The Egyptian approach is needed where you ban the likes of the Muslim brotherhood. Even the Saudi approach is ultimately better for the average civilian.

We are still haggling over price.

Could someone tell me how the murder of men, women and children on a daily basis who are simply queuing for food is NOT an act of terrorism?

The IDF are, imho, acting exactly like a terrorist organisation. For the last 2 years, they have been indiscriminately bombing and killing.

All the hostages, all 49 still in captivity was supposed to be released in March? Reports I read that only 5 were going to be released.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/29/hamas-reportedly-agrees-to-release-five-living-israeli-hostages-to-get-ceasefire.

They were set to be release in states. Stage 1 had gone smoothly and some were released. Israel then saw fit to return to violence and break the agreement which would have seen the rest of the hostages released. But that is not their priority.

Correct, so its expected that they not follow the rule of law, but to fight it, Israel is somehow meant to follow it?
You can see the issue for Israel here. As I said, this was Hamas's thinking as well, that Israel would play nice, while Hamas would fight back and launch rockets from schools and hospitals, because you know, "International Rules"

The committing of genocidal acts against a populace is never going to be ok no matter what way you try to explain it away on what hamas may or may not have thought.

Hamas miscacluated what lengths Israel was willing to go. I am not saying its right, or condoning it, but this is what happened.

That will never make the summary retriubtion of innocent civilians ok. Again in an Irish contect would you have readily accepted the same response from UK military in reposne to IRA/INLA attacks? Shrugged your shoulders and said they underestimated the response so now my family are gone and the place laid to waste….

So we sent in the Gardai and arrest Bibi and Co… right? Who gets to enforce the rule of law here?

The childishness of the "Gardai" continues.

The UN should be deployed as peace keepers to oversee the distribution of food safely. Stop Israel committing war crimes and genocidal acts. Otherwise they are furthering the future violence.

I agree that this is a grey area, but again, that is why terrorist outfits use asymmetric warfare. They are free to do what they want, kill civilians with impunity, blow up buildings, knowing or hoping that their foe follows the 'rule of law'. Usually they do, but as I said, Israel was willing to push this boundary and the results are self-evident. Gaza is really no more. Lots of innocent people are dead and Hamas are more or less completely destroyed, something many people thought impossible. Well, its possible, just depends on how willing you are to do it, and what guidelines you are willing to ignore while doing it. Us arguing about it in Ireland matters not.

Hamas are destroyed yet Israel continue to bomb and shoot with impunity and you don't see anything wrong with that..but sure "might is right"….

Jewish commentators are/were critical of Ireland not doing enough during the holocaust to aid other allied forces and speak out about what was going on; we were a small player then and are a relatively small player now yet we are not alone in speaking out and should do so. Israel cannot cherry pick which genocidal and violent acts against an innocent populace should be highlighted.

Not really. Israel gets on fine with its Egyptian and Jordanian neighbours after being at war with them in the not-so-distant past. Palestinian leadership need a new way, as the current way has not worked for the past 70-80 years. They are in a position of weakness due to their own actions.

Yes "really" - Israel are not keeping the Egyptians and Jordanians confined within ever changing borders and restricting their movement within their own countries in the same manner as the Palestinians so the analogy is frankly nonsense.

Hold on, are you saying the Israeli government knew that October 7th was about to happen, did nothing to let it happen to then, enact some grand plan of their own?
Sounds like a made up conspiracy theory, like those you hear, like Bush knew of 9/11

The 9/11 scepticism jibe doesn't really land because you haven't really got a clue what you're on about. It's not some wild conspiracy theory; it's well known and widley publicised that Israel had warnings from Egypt and from their own intelligence agencies that planning was affot and also there was an impending attack. The taking of Israelie hostages was specifically mentioned. It's been discussed on this thread a number of times.

The very fact that we are giving billions of euro worth of advanced weapons to Ukraine exactly proves my point of 'might is right'. Putin will not be stopped be words, or sanctions, or campfire songs, or strongly worded letters from the UN. Putin will only be stopped by guns, bullets and missles, where his army is unable to continue their war and the costs of battle are too much to bear for the Russian defence forces. That is the cold hard truth of the matter.

But if "might is right" why are we bothering to help? Why don't we apply the "us arguing about it in Ireland matters not" 'principle'…

Do you disagree? Maybe you are one of those who think Putin is an honest negotiater?

Stip away all the talk, all the venner of civilisation and sophistaction, we are still a violent species, and where ultimately, the only thing that will protect us is a guy holding a gun who is willing to use violence on our behalf.

So then we just stand aside an let it happen without comment and/or consequence…..I'll go back to the same statements in relation to Northern Ireland; should we just allow the state to revert back to it's previous ideology?

Never said they are..

You certainly did conflate the two as the same.

That is an easy line to trot out. The Palestinians have been miltant since the 1920's to Jews and Zionists. Many wars have been fought and all of them lost. When do you think they will learn that this is a war that cannot be won with violence?

You're conveniently forgetting the Israeli violence at the same time and attempting to white wash jewish terrorist actions pre/post the state being established.

States that have warred with Israel now have good relations with them because they are no longer a threat. Palestinians should take note.

It's easy to say when Israel are not treating them as they are the Palestinians. It's very simple and easy to say"play nice like the others" when they aren't treating them in the same manner.

I touched on this above, but the more Palestinians choose violence, the worse their lot gets. Lets not kid oursleves that they are where they are because of great diplomacy and negotiations. They are there for precisely the oppositie. They were offered their own states on about 5 occasions. Turned it down each time… now what do they have. Yet, Israel is to blame for the cluster **** that passes for decades of Palestinian leadership?

The devil is in the detail of what they were offered. Just because they wouldn't accept a bad deal, doesn't make them simply bad actors in every instance. Jews also turned down other locations in Africa for the similar reason post WW2; were they the same?

Its not an excuse, its just reality. The world is not 2000 anymore, its 2025 with Trump in the WH, a landwar invovlling Russia and Ukraine in Europe, China eyeing up Taiwan and the Middle East, as always unpredicable and violent.

So 25 years later you're ok to throw out the entire play book on international law and say "hey its 2025".

Sure…. the hard truth is that Europe is a region with no hard power, in an age where hard power is what matters, and Ireland is the country in Europe with the weakest defence forces of said region.

So we, and Europe should simply roll over and accpet our lot what ever comes? Say nothing and "might is right" shall dictate our outcome?

The world is irrevocably changing, some of us have yet to figure that out.

Yes; you don't want to grasp that "might is right" isn't acceptable and there are other ways to wield power.

And you posted anonymously on Boards.ie .

Yes, yes he is. There's also a few here who deny the starvation too with stuff like "Why don't the adults look like they're starving" etc. I'd like to think they're just trolling because otherwise it just feels sickening that we walk among people who are going out of their way to ignore what they see just to confirm their bias.

The adults are overweight, often to a serious degree, the children have others diseases, it's not hunger, that is killing them.

If the scabs marching every Saturday had any interest in Gaza or the people there, they would have been calling for Hamas to surrender and end it a long time ago, Hamas have factored in their support as another reason to go on, neither Hamas or the activists care how many die and Hamas are clear that the more the better.