Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed

Good point around the sexual motive - it’s an historical assumption “of the time”, that just wouldn’t be automatically made today ( you would hope) - I know on the thread we’ve previously discussed cases where sex was the motive but it never took place before the murder - essentially murdering someone fulfilled a sexual need- but such cases are rare and almost always connected with a serial killer - we obviously can’t fully rule out a sexual motive but it seems less likely in this case

In fairness, the immediate partner of the victim is always considered a suspect including to today, and more often than not they were involved. In fact I would say the statistics and that today are even more clear than they would have known back then. In Sophie's case though it does really seem to be one of those lower likelihood cases, where essentially it opens up to lots of fringe situations being considered.

if this thread is anything to go by, a lot of people do

I don't think that Daniel as a suspect is far fetched. He's far to well off after Sophie's death and he didn't even bother going to Ireland if his wife is dead. If he sent a killer, the killer would have to make it look spontaneous and amateur like. Suppose he killed Sophie with a gun and a silencer, then everyone would automatically look at Daniel. Only those who have money can afford to hire a professional, and of all the possible suspects Daniel most likely still had the most.

One thing Daniel could hardly have known or counted on was the either incompetence or corruptness of the Irish police or how easy a French trial could convict a man like Bailey without any evidence. I don't think Daniel knew how the Irish legal system worked or if Daniel even spoke enough English to understand everything. His culture and his thinking was French not English or Irish.

What also speaks strongly against spontaneity at least in meeting and possibly confronting ( not killing) Sophie is that she wasn't too often at her cottage in Ireland. I think it was only one week at a time and that maybe twice or three times a year? So whoever came to her house that night to confront her would at first have known she was there and approximately how long she would be staying.

Apart from Daniel, Finbarr would have known from Josie when Sophie arrived, maybe also Bolger, Alfie and Shirley the last ones, Bailey maybe or maybe not. Since one was taking care of the house and the other one was grazing horses on her land, it's very likely they both knew each other and talked every now and then….

Whoever wanted to meet Sophie and confront her with whatever ( maybe not even murder) must have had a premeditated motive for that quite a while before, - as the wait for Sophie to be at her cottage ( preferably alone ) would have been a rather long one. Something or the motive was worth the wait……

As to Bailey's often speculated sexual motive, he would have had to wait quite some time to have a sexual encounter with Sophie. If he wanted to cheat on Jules that's quite some time of wait and a lot of patience for Bailey. Was he capable of patience? Another good question.

Yes I now understand what you mean. Somebody, really anyone, not even related to Sophie could have been to the house at whatever odd or not so odd hour and Sophie confronted him and an argument turned into a violent killing. Not impossible to think.

The problem with investigating Daniel is that it would have to have been some kind of joint Irish-French investigation from the start. Following the money, investigating Daniel's financial background would have been a good start, as you said even if it was just for due diligence reasons. However the corrupt behavior of the Irish police made any decent investigation impossible right from the start.

There are so many unanswered points. All things which can be interpreted either way. Like the time of Sophie's trip, the reason that she wanted to get the heating repaired? Didn't Josie Hellens take care of the house in her absence? Calling a handyman / repairman either from France or Josie doing it, opening the house and locking the door afterwards, and then sending the invoice to Sophie wouldn't be too difficult.

Or would the Irish police really have been so stupid to believe that a statement by a witness ( coerced or even not ) seeing "a man in a dark coat" by a bridge 3 kilometers and more away from the murder site at 2 or 3 am in the morning would prove anything beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law?

Or a man named Martin Graham living as a transient, formerly with the British Army in NI not even remembering where and how he spent his last 18 years and which year he married, was furnished with drugs and motivated with money to get Bailey to confess? Which judge would have believed that story?

Martin Graham also stated once that the Irish police coerced him with the Provos ( a terrorist organization in the UK and an unlawful organization in the Republic of Ireland ) because he served in the British Army in NI, even undercover at some point. Since when is that an agreeable police procedure in a Western country in the EU?

I would still state the two things that do stand out:

1. The misconduct of a corrupt police force in Ireland where coercion and blackmail seems to be part of the norm not having to fear any consequences
2. Daniel's convenient financial gains whilst moving on to wife number 3 and expecting a child and a kangaroo court in France to cement a decision to frame a man based on "evidence" by a corrupt police force

And the results: One man's life and reputation ruined, one woman's life ended and a crime unpunished.

No. This was the closest but convenienly the scapegoat was deceased:

"The Garda Ombudsman said that many of the witnesses, including gardaí, to whom it wished to interview had either retired or died, and that in some cases other witnesses had declined to cooperate. As a result, GSOC has said it will take "no further action" on foot of complaints made by Mr Bailey and Ms Thomas. GSOC said it had considered whether the interference of the Jobs Book warranted sending a file to the Director of Public Prosecution, but that it had chosen not to on the basis that one of the main gardaí who had responsibility for the documents had since passed away."-

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0802/982741-sophie-toscan-du-plantier/

A Garda Commisioner resigned indirectly due to the case which put a spotlight on the practice of general recordings of phone calls in some Garda stations

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fennelly_Commission

https://www.newstalk.com/news/report-into-resignation-of-martin-callinan-as-garda-commissioner-delayed-indefinitely-666944

Wow, I know this article is a few years old but it's some read........

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/lost-five-files-139-statements-and-one-gate/37185350.html

It would appear that any evidence which didn't help the "case" against Bailey was lost or went missing.

Well, there was. That gate was the evidence.

I just can't understand how it was described as having "no evidential value" - and just disposed of.

Well, MAYBE they tested it exhaustively for fingerprints, fibres, blood and DNA. Maybe they did, and found none. Seems unlikely in itself!

Maybe rusty metal gate bars don't carry any fingerprints, fibres, blood or any trace of DNA. But someone had pushed that gate wide open, even though we are told that Sophie paid to have it installed and was fussy about it being kept closed.

Somebody drove through it, leaving a faint tyre mark, according to report.

Where is that vehicle?

Gate has "no evidential value" ?

I just find this too hard to swallow.

Spidermanpointingmeme.org. It's funny, after all this time I still don't actually know what you truly believe actually happened, like how did it all go down? Bailey did it! Isn't a theory, it's just a statement. There is no Garda theory written anywhere as far as I can tell, what is the tibruit theory?

I don't expect an answer, because it no doubt involves a conspiracy.

As far as I can remember the Gardaí thought he went over there expecting sex and took rejection very badly. Given his violent and narcissistic nature they might be right about that.

"is it all someone`s pet theory?"

Gemma O'Doherty - Wikipedia

Do you form your own independent thoughts about any aspect of this case, or just follow the Garda theories on everything? That's a genuine question I'm not meaning to disparage. I just can't think of one thing you have disagreed with them about (except Marie Farrell, though she had turned against them of course).

At the end of the day whether you like it or not there were over 50 suspects in this case, and it's reasonable to discuss some of them since no one has ever been convicted of the crime. This is a cold case thread after all, there is a whole other thread to chat about Ian Bailey too.

"Do you form your own independent thoughts"

In the context of this thread I am currently the only poster who thinks that the Gardaí were right all along. There`s an irony there somewhere.

"At the end of the day whether you like it or not there were over 50 suspects in this case, and it`s reasonable to discuss some of them since no one has ever been convicted of the the crime."

I don`t think it is reasonable at all. In fact I`m amazed that these threads have been allowed to continue on their merry way given some of the allegations that have been made about individuals who clearly had nothing to do with this murder and also the implied conspiracies that Gardaí and witnesses have been alleged to have been involved in to pin it on Bailey. It has been reasonable to discuss Bailey from the moment he started confessing his guilt.