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Presidential Election 2025

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,734 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Have you an example of a time the Presidential Commission was in action and the Ceann Comhairle was unavailable?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,028 ✭✭✭✭Seathrun66


    Again your lack of knowledge of the political process is stupefying. You accord great experience to the Council of State members yet it is simply an advisory body (without power) that discusses legal matters with the President if required. That alone is rare as the Presidential role is almost entirely symbolic with the office-holder obliged to sign Oireachtas legislation. Refusal to do so would create a constitutional crisis in all likelihood ending with the resignation of the President.

    There are 25 members in all with members attending the odd meeting. No great experience is gained and you're overstating a role. Your consistent posting in ignorance wouldn't be so bad were you not telling other posters they were incorrect whilst simultaneously displaying your gross ignorance of the topic. Guesswork and feelings are of no use when discussing Administrative or Constitutional Law.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,028 ✭✭✭✭Seathrun66


    CC served as Leas-Cheann Comhairle of the 33rd Dáil from July 2020 to November 2024. Any time the Cheann Comhairle was travelling, ill or incapacitated then she filled that role. Same with the Presidential Commission.

    For exact details of dates you can contact the Houses of the Oireachtas below.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,351 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    In terms of the primary duties/functions of the President, namely;

    • Appointment of the Taoiseach, members of the Government, judges and other officials;
    • Summoning and dissolving the Dáil, and convening the Oireachtas;
    • Signing legislation into law and/or referring Bills to the Supreme Court;

    the most experienced of those declared (I am assuming FG will ratify their only applicant) in how the above works is Catherine Connolly by a country mile.
    Far as I know Mairead McGuinness has no experience of the Dáil and if Heenan is nominated she is well behind the curve too. MLMD, if she declares, would have similar experience to Connolly, although Connolly's role as Leas Ceann Comhairle would put her ahead in experience terms.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,734 ✭✭✭✭L1011




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,595 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    And exactly how many times did she stand in for the Ceann Comhairle at meetings of the Presidential Commission.

    My understanding is that the last act of the Presidential Commission was to sign the Marraige Act in 2015. I could be wrong, but maybe you have more information.

    Still doesn't get away from the FACT that Heenan has more experience than Connolly in matters of the Presidency.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,595 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I initially stated that, but you correctly pointed out that I was assuming knowledge of the job for Heenan.

    I amended my statement to correctly and factually point out that Heenan has greater experience of what is involved through her experience as a member of the Council of State, something that Connolly lacks. That is not a comment on Connolly's knowledge, just a comment on her experience, which is a FACT.

    You and other posters continue to assist, based on an unprovable assumption, that Connolly does have knowledge.

    The reality is that Connolly, in contrast to Heenan has less experience of what is involved in the role of President. Whether Connolly has other attributes to make up for this shortfall is another debate.

    You could take the example of Mairead McGuinness, and argue that her experience as a European Commissioner, and as a Vice-President of the European Parliament, gives her sufficient transferrable skills and experience, to be even more qualified than Heenan or Connolly to be President, despite never having been on the Council of State.

    The more you look at the candidates, you realise that Connolly is really nowhere near qualified or experienced to be considered fit for the job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,351 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch. I am not trying to cast shade on a single target, like you did.

    I expect and assume that anyone entering this race has all the necessary knowledge of what the job entails. Connolly, Heenan, McGuinnes MLMD etc.
    You of course are guessing and we could have easily guessed what you'd arrive at.

    In terms of relevant experience I think that somebody who has served in the Dáil and who understands how it works and how it creates bills & legislation is way ahead given that the job of President has as one of it's primary functions the requirement to scrutinise that process. They don't have to transfer any skills or work out the differences in how the system works.

    I accept that someone with experience at EU level would have things to bring to the job but they'd be lacking in the nuance ad subtleties of how the home parliament works that a long served TD would just know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,595 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I would expect that anyone entering this race has all the necessary knowledge of what the job entails, but I would not assume that. For example, I would not assume that all candidates have the same necessary capacity in relation to judgement. Past decisions made by those candidates, particularly in areas relating to the Presidency should be subject to scrutiny, and some candidates will come up short - we have already seen that in relation to one candidate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,351 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You have.

    But then, as I said, I could have guessed you would.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,734 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    You expect and assume far too much

    1997, 2011 and 2018 had people on the ballot paper who didn't understand what the job entails. There are also a number of people apparently going to seek council nominations who clearly don't either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,351 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Disagree.

    If somebody shows they don't understand what the job entails, that is taken into account.

    We now have the idiotic suggestion that a person' judgement has to tally with blanch's judgement to be the correct call.
    Previously we have heard the same poster call out the current incumbent because his judgement calls on what he says do not tally with blanch's judgement calls.

    How absurd is this all gonna get?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,734 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    How can you take in to account something you've just said you expect and assume they had? Your position doesn't make sense.

    I don't care about what you're debating with blanch, I'm pointing out the error in your base argument there. Lot of people trying to drag other stuff in when core errors are pointed out here today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,351 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I assume it until I know different.

    You butted into a conversation I was having with somebody else by the way.

    Mod: warning given

    Post edited by Seth Brundle on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,595 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You could actually put those two posts together as a response to each other.

    In the first one, you state: "I expect and assume that anyone entering this race has all the necessary knowledge of what the job entails".

    In the second one, you state: "Disagree. If somebody shows they don't understand what the job entails, that is taken into account".

    It is almost like you are arguing with yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,028 ✭✭✭✭Seathrun66


    Of when the Ceann Comhairle was ill, incapacitated or travelling between those dates. No, as I'm not a personal friend, but I'll ask him for a peek at his diary.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,734 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    And how many of those occasions matched with the Presidential Commission actually doing anything? Because I'm not actually sure they have done anything in many years.

    Additionally, the Commission can function with two members, so the substitutes are not even required in some cases.

    So it continues that you have no evidence whatosever of Connolly ever actually doing anything on the Commission.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,351 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I don't see a contradiction.

    I assume those who have entered the race, Connolly and McGuinness (who has entered it and is awaiting party ratification) know what the job entails.
    Neither of them have shown me they don't know what the job entails.

    If they do, then my assumption changes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,028 ✭✭✭✭Seathrun66


    So attending a metting of 25 people every two years gives you greater presidential experience than being third in line for the duties of President. Hmmnnn. You're excelling yourself. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,734 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    So, as I said, you assume far too much. Candidates, possibly even a majority of them some years, have clearly not understood the job in 1997, 2011 and 2018.

    You are aware how a discussion forum works, aren't you?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,595 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Yes, greater experience, because one has experience, the other has not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,351 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What has any of that got to do with my assessment of those currently going forward?


    Which bit of, if they demonstrate they don't know the job then my assumption changes don't you understand?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,028 ✭✭✭✭Seathrun66


    What do you understand by the role of Presidential Commission?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,595 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    As far as I know, and you can correct me if I am wrong, it hasn't met since 2015.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,734 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    You said "I expect and assume that anyone entering this race has all the necessary knowledge of what the job entails."

    I pointed out that that was unwise, based on past experience.

    You never stated your assumption could or would change until the massive problems with your original statement were pointed out, and even then you outright said you disagreed with it being pointed out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,734 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    A body which acts when required in the absence of the President

    They do not meet or act unless they are required to, which is astoundingly rarely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,028 ✭✭✭✭Seathrun66


    Exactly. Finally you're getting it.

    CC has the decade of legislative experience not afforded to Heenan.

    CC had the training to take over presidential duties as third in line whilst Heenan attended 3/4 large meetings in her role. Pretty inconsequntial for the latter and again you display an ignorance of the true significance of an advisory body to a symbolic figurehead.

    Heenan is preferable to the other FF candidates mooted (though far less legislatively) experienced that the two elected officials who've declared. She certainly caries less dubious baggage than the dodgy ranks of FF politicians of yore. I'm happy with her and Connolly on the ballot.

    You're getting there. But read more on Constitutional law please.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,351 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    How do you know what my view of past candidates was? You are making assumptions now not to mention giving patronising advice. .

    I assume they know until they show they don't. Same as if I am interviewing someone for a job, I assume they know how to do that job until they show they don't.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,734 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Would you prefer me to believe that you actually considered Dana (twice!), Peter Casey and other candidates who never showed any understanding of the role to have had the required knowledge of the role?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,351 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I didn't know what either of them understood about the job until I heard them talk about it.
    When you first heard Peter Casey's name did you just assume he wouldn't know???

    What is your point here?



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