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Irish citizens illegally in the US under Trump?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,638 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    This is why it's worth the risk.

    In the mid 90s unemployment in Ireland was 14% or so.

    Income Tax was a lot more than it is today, 48% and a very low threshold before you start paying that.

    And things are expensive, the cost of living is high.

    So there are little or no prospects if you don't go to college.

    So you have a friend/sibling/cousin in America and you decide to head over for the summer and see.

    Ireland is now part of the Visa Waiver program so you don't need a visa anymore, just turn up at the airport with a return ticket within 90 days and convince them you are going on holiday.

    Your friend gets you a job with a roofer they know and before you know it you are rakinig in the cash, cash in hand, and not only that but things are so much cheaper than in Ireland, so you are doing very well for yourself.

    Illegals working in construction got paid a lot of money at the time.

    Even girls working as nannys for rich families were paid a mint for minding kids, all sorted by word of mouth and recommendations from other rich families who have an Irish nanny.

    So the summer turns to autumn and instead of heading back to Ireland to a dreary winter you stick around, you have made new friends, you might even be in a relationship etc

    The authorities turn a blind eye for the most part because these people are roofing their houses and minding their kids.

    And so it goes on, you get the chance to come home a few times because US immigration is lax.

    Your family and friends come out to visit you, you pay for it because you can, the money is so good.

    By the time September 11th comes around and things get stricter you have already been there half a decade.

    You decide to stay or come home, many decide to come home with the deposit for a house and no problem finding a job in the new building boom.

    Some make the decision to stay based on a range of reasons that are personal to them.

    And that's why you have people 30+ years illegal in America, one year just rolled into the next, they went over young and fancy free and now they are middle aged.

    They are still doing well, but they have never had a easy opportunity to become legal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,380 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I recall US immigration was lax, especially at the border with Canada. There were times, just a provincial driver's license ( not the later enhanced license ) was good enough to cross the border.

    Some people from Europe also fooled the US immigration authories with a new passport upon their trip to the US, if they visited somebody in say back in Ireland. US immigration officers went by passport numbers back then. A new passport number and they thought you're a different person. No harsh questions, no cross examinations, just nice words, welcome to America…..

    Yes the explanation does make sense. I suppose they will never have the opportunity to have a legal status in the US, they would always be at risk, and maybe in hope of being put back on a flight to Ireland, rather than a trip to one of these jails in Latin America.

    Personally I would never have dared, but I do understand the lure of the money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭TokTik


    So you want sympathy for them because they broke the law, and the country they broke the law in, hasn't changed their rules to let stop them being illegal?? Startling logic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,638 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Nope.

    What I am saying is that people who have no sympathy for illegals because the illegals didn't legalize their status for all these years are I'll informed because there have been little or no opportunities for illegals to legalize their status over that time.

    You can't blame them for not doing something they could not do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,380 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The problem is that there is not much room for sympathy.

    If youre in the US illegally for 20 years, what's going to happen to your retirement / pension?

    Suppose you're lucky and never get caught and leave for Ireland, is your US state pension gone completely? Most likely, I'd say yes.

    So working for 20 years illegally in the US is more than a stupid idea. Even if not caught, from a personal financial planning it's a desaster.

    Risking one year, just for adventure's sake if one is younger would be one thing but more than 20 years is something else.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,908 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Nobody made them break the law. I've no idea why I'm supposed to sympathise with these people when the Trump administration is actively deporting people who actually did nothing to deserve it.

    A lot of people in the USA deserve sympathy right now. Middle class Irish people who thought they were above the law are not part of that group.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,638 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    20 or 30 years working in America not paying tax allows a lot of opportunity to put money away.

    Most people who stayed did so because they liked the work and moreso the reward for the work.

    I think they will be fine.

    I don't know know the individual motivations of people who spend 30 years illegal in America, so I'm not going to sit behind my keyboard and call them stupid for doing it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭SupaCat95


    Yeah 9/11 was a massive turning point. Even the IRA saw it was a turning point and decided to change tactics and sue for real peace. Smart people playing chess are not focusing on the where the game is now in the moment but where the match will be in 4 or 5 plays. I am sure there must have been some amnesties for people to go legal down the years. I do have sympathy for anyone growing up in Ireland in the 1970's and 1980's. No sign of peace up north, nobody wanted to invest, there wasnt even a break in the economy with recessions and strikes (F U Waterford Crystal!!!).

    There were both Morrison and Donnelly Visas, I know most people were glad just to get out of the place. If you know you are going to do the dodgy thing make sure you have your escape route. I dont recall many Irish people ever being deported from the states unless it was something serious. Aaron Brady was one and the other was some dope who poked his head above the parapet and said Trumps immigration policy was BS and he was an illegal on TV and he got deported for giving the state the two fingers.

    I would never put myself in a position that was so fixed I could not liquidate my assets in 30 days and move to another country. The Irish government should have used the chance the last time Trump was in office to get an Amnesty and tax reconciliation (you get your trip home to Ireland and save your pension). Instead the Irish government went to butt head with Trump and the clown Harris called him a "gowl". Its sort of hard to go begging cap in hand after that codology.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭SupaCat95


    That was then, this is now. There is much more IT and AI systems for fishing out tax evasion. The Caribbean Island have gotten more expensive and do much more screening for paperwork. Also Sealand is gone for 2nd passports.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭SupaCat95


    You have seen that statue of "Justice", the lady blind folded with the knife and the balance outside of court houses? That is represent that everyone should be treated equally. The illegals from outside of the United States had the oppertunity to go the legal route. They chose not to, it is really a matter for the American Department of Justice. If you had 10 years or more to regularise your status and you didnt or didnt plan an offshore hidey hole in Antigua or St Lucia, that is tough cookies.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,804 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Wondering how illegals in the US would be entitled to a pension?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,282 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,804 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    AAh Right, so you could still do that as an illegal?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,954 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Yes, you could. In fact, you were required to.

    Couple of misapprensions appearing in the thread.

    Most undocumented migrants to the US do want to register for and pay social security, do want to pay tax, etc. They co9me there because they want to integrate into American society, after all. And most of them have done, particularly those who have been there a long time. (I think that nowadays it can be difficult to get an SSN without demonstrating your migration status, but that's a relatively recent development.)

    Not only is this what they want; it's what they are legally obliged to do. There is no US law that says that, if you are an undocumented immigrant, you have an exemption from social security taxes or income taxes. Even if you shouldn't be working in the US, the fact that you are working in the US means that you have the same US tax obligations as anyone else who works in the US.

    If detected, and deported from the US, an undocumented immigrant does not lose whatever social security entitlement they have accrued. You pay the required number of social security contributions, you qualify for a pension; them's the rules. It's not a condition that you should be resident in the US in order to claim the pension, when the time comes. It's not unusual for US social security pensioners to live outside the US, and the reason why they're living outside the US is not relevant to their entitlement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭NSAman


    give it time, I’m sure this will be reviewed also. You are right in what you say though. Most want to be legal (funny that seeing as many in here don’t want to visit, let alone live here) pat taxes. There have been options to legalise though. A good lawyer is paramount, believe me I know. Being here for 20 or 30 years means you should have at least tried, there are so many organisations that can assist and advise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,954 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    There's no general right in the US for an undocumented migrant to regularise their situation on the basis that they have been in the US a long time. From time to time there have been particular schemes that particular migrants might have qualified for but other migrants not, and of course the particular circumstances of a migrant might open up a route to regularisation — e.g. marriage to a US citizen.

    In some of the posts in this thread there seems to be a presumption that pretty well anyone who has been long-term in the US as an undocumented migrant has had an oportunity to regularise their status. This is not true. Some have had such an opportunity and have taken it; some have had such an opportunity and have not taken it; some have never had such an opportunity.

    Your point about a good lawyer is a valid one. Many of these opportunities are in practice only open if you have good professional support and advice. If you're an undocumented immigrant working as, e.g, an accountant, you may have access to networks that make you aware of these opportunities and you can afford the required professional support; if you've been working washing dishes, picking crops or on a factory assembly line, not so much. In fact there's a pretty clear gradient between social and economic advantage on the one hand and rates of regularisation on the other.

    (Probably worth adding that right now is a really bad time to be particating in any program or process for regularising your position. You're low-hanging fruit, as far as Trump's ICE is concerned; precisely because of your engagement with the process they know all about you and your cirumstances, and they know where to find you. These people were among the first to be picked up when the wave of mass deportations began.)

    give it time, I’m sure this will be reviewed also.

    [Social security rights of people who worked as undocument migrants.] Under Trump, anything is possible. But this would actually be quite difficult to do. The Social Security Administration, remember, doesn't have any information about your migration status at any point, so how are they going to identify the contributions you paid while undocumented?

    They could adopt a policy of simply cancelling the social security entitlements of anybody who has been deported. (Meaning, anybody leaving the country voluntarily would keep their social security entitlements, as would anyone who manages to stay in the country.) But that would give deportees a legal claim (against the Social Security Administration, for their social security entitlements) which they could take to court, and the Trump regime has been at pains to keep matters relating to immigration out of the courts at all costs. Lots of people would use this as an opportunity to litigate the rights and wrongs of their deportation, so that's probably a door the regime would think twice before opening.

    Post edited by Peregrinus on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭TokTik


    They could have left at any time, preferably BEFORE they broke that countries rules. It’s fairly simple.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,690 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Guy overstayed 90 days by 3 days and then held for 3 months although he signed papers agreeing to be sent back to Ireland!

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jul/15/irish-tourist-ice-detention



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 479 ✭✭myfreespirit


    Was reading that earlier - his ordeal was absolutely shocking. It seems that if you arouse the "interest" of ICE in the good ol' USA, anything can happen you, up to and including deportation to a holding centre in a different country

    Even the smallest irregularity in your visa status or visa waiver will likely result in severe consequences if you are caught.

    Thankfully, I'm not planning to visit the US, and will certainly avoid holidaying there while the current regime is in force.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    So a guy was happy to deport himself but no they want to keep him in the country by locking him up for not leaving the country within a specified time. That makes perfect sense. Fuckin morons.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,849 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    I’m surprised that it wasn’t highlighted that this arose under Joe Biden, before Trump’s inauguration.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,690 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    I wonder if the ICE people had not already decided to change the tone of their work after the election, they may have already had the powers?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,849 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    I wonder was the “mental health crisis” so severe that cops were called. Local cops in many places used not interact with ICE. I wonder was he able to leave so quickly. It’s a pity given the short period.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,380 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    In the end, to be fair, 90 days are 90 days, and not 3 days more.

    Whether holding somebody for another 3 months for just 3 days is a different debate. I'd say it's disproportionate.

    They should simply have put him on the next available flight to Ireland and a warning not to ever do it again.

    What would worry me is, if 90 days are not 90 days, but 80 days in terms of ICE and simple tourists are arrested at will.

    In the end, anybody on a visa waiver has no rights, so 90 days could easily have lapsed by 80 days….. A video conference over a personal computer with a client in Ireland or answering a business e-mail for a client back in Ireland whilst on vacation in the US could also be seen as "work" as well, even though it's not illegal employment in the US….

    ICE can be creative, if necessary, and my fears are they feel it's more and more necessary these days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,419 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Yeah and his situation got way worse under Trump when he was moved into the criminal prison system despite being convicted of no crime.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,453 ✭✭✭arctictree


    So it seems this guy had medical advice not to travel by air Not looking good if you are in the US and are in an accident and overstay the 90 days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,690 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    The point is that if he had gone to the airport after 100 days and left and subsequently sent in all the medical stuff etc to account for this then they would probably still have given him a visa.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    could always have taken a train to the border.

    But it’s a fair question. What happens if you get hospitalized on Day 89?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 405 ✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    Irish are bigger than Trump-

    The Irish will see Trump out on his ass-



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,419 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Gibberish. Where is the 100 day thing coming from?

    Going to the airport any day after day 90 would have made him an immediate target for ICE

    How T F was he supposed to send in any medical evidence subsequently? "and left"? You think he could have got retrospective permission to leave the US after he'd already left?!?

    He already had a visa. He didn't comply with its terms - in the interest of justice he should have been given an extension, but he didn't get one. He was treated appallingly after that. The regime in the US is pure scum.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



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