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Hamas strike on Israel

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Good opinion piece in Haaretz. It certain looks like Israeli society is fast becoming tolerant in wanton murder and destruction against Palestinians.

    Pariah status is guaranteed for the foreseeable future.


    "Israel today is a society that tolerates and encourages material incitement to terror in its classic form: politically motivated violence against civilians, every single day – but against Gazans.

    The chief offenders are Israel's own government ministers. The infamous statement by then Defense Minister Yoav Gallant days after October 7 that 'no food, no fuel, no water' should be allowed into Gaza and that Israel was 'fighting human animals' was not a rhetorical statement, it was a directive – admittedly in the days when the war was still a direct reaction to October 7.

    But collective siege and the abuse of civilians are never legal"

     Dahlia Scheindlin



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,464 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    Yes, it's all getting tiresome, yet you (plural) keep replying with the same tiresome responses. Powerless as we all are to act it seems the same tiresome attack everything by accusing everyone on the other side as being zionists, genocide apologists, anti Islam or antisemite, terrorist supporters, etc etc.

    The reality is that little can be done or won by our fruitless arguments. The political western world seems to be in an acceptance mode and despite the rhetoric of disgust most politicians are capable of, taking actions that may force an end to this slaughter fest it seems they are incapable of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Seems alleged War Criminal #1 (at large) doesn't like Israeli polls that would end the Genocide and the have the hostages returned - so he simply dismisses them.

    • In a video posted on his X account, Netanyahu said that surveys showing that a majority of Israelis favor a hostage deal over continuing the war "are engineered," claiming that pollsters do not ask respondents if they support a hostage deal that leaves Hamas in control of Gaza.
    • Responding to the video, the Hostages and Missing Families Forum accused Netanyahu of "presenting a false representation that we cannot reach a comprehensive agreement, in opposition to the people's will," adding that "the facts are simple: Over 80 percent of the people want an agreement that would bring the fighting to an end and the return of all hostages."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,425 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    The reality is that little can be done or won by our fruitless arguments

    That is clear (unless some of us posting here are masquerading as world leaders) so why contribute to the discussion at all?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,688 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    'Most moral army' etc

    "TEL AVIV, Israel (AP) — The only time the Palestinian man wasn’t bound or blindfolded, he said, was when he was used by Israeli soldiers as their human shield.

    Dressed in army fatigues with a camera fixed to his forehead, Ayman Abu Hamadan was forced into houses in the Gaza Strip to make sure they were clear of bombs and gunmen, he said. When one unit finished with him, he was passed to the next.

    “They beat me and told me: ‘You have no other option; do this or we’ll kill you,’” the 36-year-old told The Associated Press, describing the 2 1/2 weeks he was held last summer by the Israeli military in northern Gaza. Orders often came from the top, and at times nearly every platoon used a Palestinian to clear locations, said an Israeli officer, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal. "

    https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    But I don't just respond - I provide factual corroborated evidence, quotes, reports and news items. As done many others here in support of the truth.

    I will continue to post as I have - exposing the Genocide, the lies, the atrocities, and murder of all the actors - the IDF, the Israeli Govt. and the alleged War Criminal and exposing the false narratives peddled by pro Israelis who seek to justify wanton death and destruction.

    I do get your point and agree with your last para. But remaining silent is just giving in. If anything I post informs someone, anyone, of the truth and it changes their opinion, that is a good thing.

    If anyone thinks it's tiresome, there's always the ignore button.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Indeed - the weapons of choice for terrorists - scalpels and operating tables… God forbid the IDF were attacked by a scalpel-wielding Palestinian or had an operating table dropped onto them from height…

    Israel is preventing the entry of medical equipment into Gaza, claiming it is "dual-use" and could be exploited by Hamas or other terrorist groups for weaponry or infrastructure development.

    The complete list of banned equipment, compiled in June and obtained by Haaretz, includes essential items for Gaza's healthcare system, such as operating tables, scalpels and ultrasound machine parts, as well as items that could be used to build shelters for the civilian population.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Pretty sure they could go back in history and have a look at the quickest and cheapest way to set up a Concentration Camp. Or just nuke the place to save time and money.

    Netanyahu and several other ministers criticized the IDF's timeline for establishing a "humanitarian city" in Rafah during a security cabinet discussion on Sunday, a source told Haaretz, saying that the estimated one year it would take to to set up was "unreasonable," and that its estimated cost of billions of shekels was too expensive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,464 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    I like your factual report posts, never leaves much to argue. I think you are capable and very adept at that. I just feel sometimes yours and other responses are needless, those who excuse what Israel are doing are for the most part just touting for the kind of responses they get and waiting for a simple slip in language that can have a double meaning they can pounce on to draw you into the same old arguments over and over. They have nothing to offer that can justify what the israeli offensive in gaza has turned out to be, regardless of the arguments that can be made about the start of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Thank you and yes, you're right. The slightest chink in an argument is the core topic of the replies - thus avoiding the substantive argument up for debate. That is a sure sign of no actual point of argument.

    I don't agree with the "needless" bit though.

    There are many here posting for 600 plus days. There are many who simply read posts - possibly only dropping in a few times a month for updates. Factual posts do help make an informed position (either way) much stronger. Opinions are just that, opinions (and are fine) but facts do matter.

    I've just posted the latest news items - they should give readers a good sense of what's happening, but more importantly, why.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭engineerws


    I'm reading a lot here about the hostages but only in the context of Israeli hostages in Gaza.

    Israel had over 9,000 Palestinian hostages at the end of 2024

    https://www.btselem.org/statistics/detainees_and_prisoners

    The Israeli's rape and torture these hostages. Is there no concern for the horrific torture/ death being experienced by the Palestinian hostages?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,425 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    They are not hostages, they are just illegally detained against their will…. it is such an important difference for the supremacists and their useful idiots.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,029 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Genocider No.1 is afraid of ending up in prison on other charges (corruption) if the ''War'' ends. It suits him more than anyone else to keep it going.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,677 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Equally it seems that someone pointing out that Israel are not legally guilty of genocide, is in fact supporting all of Israel's actions. Oh, and that person can be called a "wanker" and other labels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,029 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    War Crime after War Crime. Just like refusing water, medicine and food. That on top of all the other murders. Pariah state.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,029 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    We know all that but I enjoy drawing them out. They fall into more traps than you can set.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,688 ✭✭✭Odhinn




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 601 ✭✭✭Lawlesz


    waiting for a simple slip in language that can have a double meaning they can pounce on to draw you into the same old arguments over and over.

    This exactly. The constant obfuscation, and arguing semantics. They'll talk in general terms, and when pulled up on it they drag the conversation off topic into semantics and a twist of words, then disappear for a few days and appear back again to argue with someone else without clearing up what has already been put to them. You have one poster here refusing to condemn what Israel are doing because they have not been found guilty by the criminal courts that they refuse to engage with. The same poster so worried about Hamas retaining hostages (which I can fully call out as abhorrent) but at the same time using it as some roundabout justification for killing, what 50,000 people, and continuing to starve those that are left.

    From what I see, most posters on here calling out Israel for their war crimes are also calling out Hamas for theirs. The defenders of Israel are unable to do the same thing. That speaks volumes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭sock.rocker*


    The former Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert has likened the project to a concentration camp. Photograph: Quique Kierszenbaum/The Guardian

    His comments evoking comparisons with Nazi-era Germany were fiercely attacked inside Israel. The heritage minister, Amichai Eliyahu, in effect called for Olmert to be jailed over the comments, with a barely veiled reference to time he served for corruption offences after leaving office.

    “[Olmert] already knows prison very well,” Eliyahu said. “There is no other way to shut him down from the hatred and antisemitism he spreads around the world.”

    The biggest bested democracy in the Middle East.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,464 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Not equally at all Blanch. You giving a legal opinion on genocide is not the same as someone suggesting that Hamas are retaining hostages because it is their only leverage.
    You are not a legal expert.
    You are not a genocide expert.
    You are transparently pro Israel.
    You have double standards and are biased.
    For example you, yourself suggested that dressing as a civilian to carry out an attack was a war crime when done by Hamas but when it was pointed out that Israel did it……….silence. Double standards and hypocrisy.

    I don’t condone name calling or insults. If I met someone IRL and they, I hate to bring it up again, defended the killing of Irish peacekeepers, I would not call them any names but I would form a definite opinion about the type of person they were.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,679 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    So in essence, you support continued violence from Palestinians for a 2-state solution, but you do know that Hamas and the majority of Palestinians don't support a 2-state solution at all. This will just result in more death of Palestinians. You do realise this right?

    The irony here is that a 2 state solution was offered to the Palestinians, not once, not twice, but 5 times..

    The whole thing that kicked this off was the Palestinians/Arabs rejection of UN Resolution 181 (ii)
    They could have had a state as far back as 1947! They said no then and have continued to say no. At some stage they need to cop on.

    Untitled Image


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,679 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    What else happened in 1967?

    The Six-Day War happened when a pan Arab coalition was primed to attack Israel (again!)

    What happened in 1947? The Palestinians were offered a state, said no. Now they want hit pause and restart a game, like its an xBox.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,679 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Settlements in the West Bank are a recent thing, since the late 90's.

    The fact that the Palestinians were offered a deal 5 times shows us that Israel was indeed up for an agreement, but they were knocked back each time. Now the Palestinians are weaker and dont have that much of a hand to play. Israel cant be blamed for poor decisions of the Palestinian leadership.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,970 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,679 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Where did I say that the Palestinians are 'incapable' of statehood?

    My point is that the Palestinians have been led up a garden path by their leaders, who are either corrupt and incompetent, or are corrupt and religious fanatics. No one can honestly say, looking back at 80 years of this conflict, that there have been many missed opportunities by the Palestinians. Arafat most famously rejected a deal. Each time they rejected a deal, their hand got weaker and weaker.

    At some stage the Palestinians need to look at themselves and get some new leaders who deal in reality and try and forge a new peace and state, without resorting to violence, as violence has brought them nothing but defeat and misery.

    Some honestly have no problem with the status quo, which is astonishing to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,464 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    As I have said many times, I don’t “support” violence. I realise that the current situation is going to result in violence.
    Your solution for peace is that the Palestinians will just have to accept living in smaller and smaller enclaves as the rest of their land is arbitrarily seized in the West Bank and the remaining residents of Gaza will live in concentration camps.
    Surely you can see that simply “copping on” isn’t enough for people to accept this for them and their children.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,970 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    100% correct. They never ever reply to the substance of the post. Just little shallow digs at a single line and then run away. Some are gone for weeks and months.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,549 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The palestinians have been dealt duff cards from the very start. They're going in to every negotiation holding a 7-2 off suit while Israel have pocket aces.

    Whenever Israel offer them 'a deal' its a poisoned chalice and intended to only weaken them further.

    When the Palestinians begin to unite, or look like they are about to win international support for a peaceful solution the Israeli intelligence and defense forces undermine them by supporting renegade groups no matter how violent or extremist they are. They provoke violence through inhumane and degrading treatment and use any resistance as the excuse to go in and 'mow the lawn'

    The Israelis treat the Palestinians the same way the black and tans treated the Irish. Irish rebellion was called terrorism. It was justified rebellion. This will only end on one of two ways, the complete genocidal subjugation of palestinians (like the native Americans were neutralised) or Israel will be forced to grant them a free and independent state or equal rights in a single state through overwhelming international pressure.

    The path most likely is option 1 at the moment entirely because ordinary people in the west are not demanding that our leaders immediately take action.

    There aren't two sides in this war. There is one side committing genocide. But there are two aides to history. Will you be on the side who gave comfort and support as millions of people are starved, bombed, imprisoned and an entire people ultimately wiped off the face of the earth?

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,168 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    What I find odd is that when advocating for the release of hostages, they're only talking about one side…. the Israeli hostages. Cause the thousands of Palestinians they've held illegally aren't even counted in that and they've been holding some of them for years...

    It's almost like one side is worth more than the other…. hmmm…



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,464 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    It’s very deliberate. When one is an ethno supremacist, exchanging one human being for another would give the impression of equality so instead we have hundreds if not thousands exchanged for one.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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