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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed

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Comments

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,824 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Are you able to answer what I actually asked you rather than speculate on other stuff?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    This forum is not a court of law. The DPP didn't prosecute - his decision and he has to live by that. He accepted rubbish like christmas trees and barking dogs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,084 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The "evidence", such as it is, is flimsy and circumstantial.
    I've put it to you already on the thread that was the Guards own assessment of it, citing an Irish Examiner article.
    And that was when they thought Marie Farrell was a reliable witness, which it is plain she is not.
    You could offer no challenge to it. So the point stands. The evidence is flimsy and circumstantial at best.
    No witness putting Bailey at the scene, no forensics putting Bailey at the scene despite him being allegedly injured at it, witnesses attesting to Bailey having being scratched before the murder, witnesses attesting to the scratches not being consistent with briar cuts.
    No solid motive, only speculation.
    We don't even have a firm time of death with indications it may have been an early morning murder which would effectively rule Bailey out based on Jules' testimony.

    I've never seen any poll or indication that "the vast majority of people think IB killed Sophie", so unless you can provide a source for that, it can be dismissed as without foundation and something you have just invented.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,824 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    So you've nothing to show IB's presence in the lane or that he had any interaction with Sophie but you know that he did kill her despite nobody knowing when the murder actually occurred (and is likely to have happened at a time that doesn't suit your accusations).

    Yeah, your knowledge of the case is staggeringly weak despite your insistence over the "murderous bastard's" guilt 🙄

    As for your pretend survey result, might people believe in Bailey's guilt because they were told so by members of AGS?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,084 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    You also stated:

    I respect the view of the DPP and others that a conviction was not possible due to incompetence from AGS.

    You also posted: it is understandable that the DPP did not proceed with a case.

    Multiple witnesses attest to Bailey's involvement with Christmas trees before the murder.
    Multiple witnesses attest to barking dogs on that night.
    They are not some invention of the DPP's office. They are based on statements reviewed by the DPP's office submitted by AGS.
    You can't offer a coherent response to these points, just calling them 'rubbish' is utterly unconvincing.

    The DPP's office knows more about a court of law and standards of evidence than you or I or former history teacher Michael Martin ever will. This is not a Michael McDowell making the claim. Martin embarrassed himself going outside his lane. Multiple DPPs across several years made the decision not to prosecute.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Oh look you're holding me to account on what I've stated and yet defend Ian Bailey who told a 14 year old schoolboy that he went up there and "bashed her brains in".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,084 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It was only when the Guards put the wind up him the lad got scared, from the DPP report:

    Malachi Reed says that he got a shock when he heard what Ian had said and he got a cold shiver. This is not consistent with the recollection of his mother, Amanda, who states that: “I remember Tuesday the 4th February 1997 at 9 p.m. Malachi arrived home. He told me he had got a spin home from Ian Bailey. Malachi seemed okay and was in good form. On the following day the 5th February 1997 Malachi arrived home at about 6:00 p.m. I noticed he was agitated and I wondered why. I questioned him and he told me that Gda. Kevin Kelleher had called to school that day and was asking questions about Ian Bailey and his movements on the previous night. Malachi then said he hadn’t told the Guard everything and he told me that Ian had been drinking on the Tuesday night and that he had said to him that he had smashed her brains in with a rock or stone. At this stage Malachi was upset and I think that it was only then that the impact of what Ian Bailey had said to him hit him”.
    It is abundantly clear that Malachi Reed was not upset by Ian Bailey on 4 February 1997, however, following his conversation with Gda. Kelleher he became upset and turned a conversation which had not apparently up until then alarmed him into something sinister.

    We really are at bottom of the barrel levels of evidence. The Guards on this case engaged in so much malpractice I wouldn't even trust a confession from Bailey to them, never mind these so-called admissions, all of which are dubious or explainable.

    Bailey's own version of events below is plausible and given that the lad continued to take lifts from Bailey afterwards, this really is a mountain from a molehill:

    Mr Bailey denies making such an admission - though he acknowledged he did repeat rumours about himself to the schoolboy.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/boy-heard-how-womans-brains-were-bashed-in/25919004.html

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 168 ✭✭Baz Richardson


    I note that you ignored the question from Seth for the fourth time regarding what time the murder occurred, it appears to be a habit of yours. Are you going to answer ANY of my questions????



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,084 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There's no way to be sure of Baileys guilt if you cant be reasonably sure on time of death. Or its not an evidence based assessment.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Malachi, " How is work ian"

    Bailey, " It was all fine until they said I went up there and bashed her f…king brains in"

    That became, " It was all fine until .. I went up there and bashed her f..king brains in "



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,400 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Not only the time of death, but there are still too many open questions as well.

    One of the biggest ones are that the blood on the door of the cottage is apparently Sophie's. However she was murdered near the gates. It would seem she walked calmly and possibly in conversation not suspecting anything with the killer down the road rather than ran? If so, how come the blood stain is on the door? Possibly it was left by the killer going back to the house? ( This would imply that Sophie's blood was on the killer) Why would the killer return to the house? Or was she assaulted right at the door and ran? Also the fire poke missing from the house? Did the killer take it? Or was Sophie considering the fire poke for defence? And then there is an expensive bottle of French wine which was missed by police?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Ah the Garda's fault again - never Ian Bailey's. BSE - Blame someone else.

    How about his words to Richie Shelley in the early hours of New Years Day 1999?

    In Shelley's own words: "He [Bailey] came back into the kitchen and he was upset. He was crying, and put his arms around me….and said to me "I did it, I did it……I went too far"

    Go ahead. Explain that one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    "A THEN fourteen-year-old West Cork schoolboy who claims Ian Bailey admitted to him that he "bashed in" Sophie Toscan du Plantier's brains was so terrified that both he and his mother put dead-bolts on every door in their home.

    Malachi Reed (now 21) told the seventh day of Ian Bailey's defamation action against eight Irish and English newspapers that the journalist, while giving him a lift, said: "It was fine up until I went up and bashed her f***ing brains in."

    Mr Reed said he was stunned at what he believed to be a murder confession."

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/boy-heard-how-womans-brains-were-bashed-in/25919004.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,084 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    As opposed to what? ABB ... always blame Bailey even if you have to ignore multiple witnesses or work backwards from the presumption of Baileys guilt and view informatiom through that tunnel vision.

    As for explain that one.

    I did it."

    "Did what?

    You are the one presuming it relates to the murder.

    Whereas the DPP summarises...

    An objective assessment of the alleged conversation between Richie Shelley and Ian Bailey does not demonstrate that the conversation was about the murder.

    How many posts now and all you have done is demonstrate how flimsy the evidence against Bailey is, and that your opinion of him is based on false information such as claiming Sophie regularly travelled to Ireland alone. This has no factual basis and you have not withdrawn this false claim or provided anything to support it.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 168 ✭✭Baz Richardson


    Malachi Reed's statement was analysed in the DPP notes. For the FIFTH time. Have you read them in full?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,942 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    All I can say about the recent chain of posts is that you can't reason someone out of a viewpoint they didn't reason themselves into.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    That's not what was stated in a court of law. Forget the DPP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,400 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The statement of Richie Shelley could be true or not. Richie Shelley could easily have lied.

    I did it, I did it, I went too far, could easly have happened after or referring to the drowning a bottle of whiskey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Yet Richie and Rosie were seen to be happy enough enjoying the company of the self confessed murderer in the pub the very next day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    The French court? where the witness refused to attend, so his mammy went instead, as a result the witness could not be questioned? that one?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,400 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    They could have done so ever night in the pub, and still it doesn't prove murder.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    But we're not finished yet, we're only on Confessions, and there's 3 more confessions.

    Bill Fuller, Yvonne Ungerer, and Helen Callanan.

    There's a long way to go yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    No an Irish court at Bailey's libel case ...which he lost.

    Suppose you're devastated over that as well?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    They arrived in the pub. Bailey arrived in afterwards and they kept their distance after realising what a crazy Bailey is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 168 ✭✭Baz Richardson


    A civil court is not a criminal court.

    Sixth time: Have you read the DPP notes in full?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Richie Shelley spoke to Bailey in the pub, Did you read the article?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    That was the night before. Then they (with his wife) went back to Jules' house with IB. Realised he was crazy and avoided him the next day when they accidentally bumped into him again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Richie Shelley spoke to Bailey in the pub next day, New Year's day, did you read the article?

    Edit, They were so traumatised they "ran from the house". Yet they never mentioned it to Rosie's brother who picked them up that night.

    They never went to the Gardaí to report it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    I did read it. No mention of Shelley.

    Shelley avoided IB the next day. He found out he's crazy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    I'm not suggesting it is. It beggars belief though that he could claim to be not even aware of her existence let alone not ever having been introduced to her or gotten to know her. In communities like that everyone knows everyone else and the presence of new arrivals like Sophie would have been noted immediately.



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