Mayo GAA Discussion

I'd say it's just different ways of describing the same thing.

I've seen many Mayo teams lose finals to teams with a lesser football ability, eg Tyrone in 21. I see your point about getting to the final not being "underachieving"

It's not playing to your potential on the big day that's the issue though, whether you'd describe that as underachieving or not is up to yourself.

When all is said and done we did not qualify as a result of what we did on Sunday v Donegal.We lost out because we did not give Cavan any respect in the opening game.Lee Keegan even said in the weekend papers that we did not give Cavan any respect,similar to the way we didnt give 'lesser' teams any respect back in his day.He said it wasn't done purposely but psychologically it was done! Of course Cavan targeted the Mayo game for a win and have done nothing since,losing by a cricket score to both Tyrone and Donegal and it will be more than likely a hammering for them again at the weekend v Kerry.Their fans are not travelling to games either,even home ones.As one lad put it :its harder to get off the Cavan team at the moment than to get on it!

The new rules were supposed to re invigorate the Mayo team (maybe it would have the team of Keegan et al back in the day…they had energy), but this management team has more or less totally ignored the 'new rules' which was very evident in the early part of the league until they copped on a little bit but when Championship came we reverted back to the ludicrous 'back and over' stuff which is now marked as the 'arc'….the Mayo players see it as a cow sees an electric fence and turn back when they reach it rather than take a shot on,so what if it goes wide…at least try.Donegal had many wides on Sunday but it didnt bother them.Mayos wide count has dried up unbelievably since the new rules came in…because they are not taking shots!! ( They got a 'bollocking' in training for taking on shots that were deemed not worth taking on!)

The local newspapers are full of 'new manager' stuff today….does that mean we will have a crowd of players 'un retiring' if a certain manager comes back again,again and again….or will the Co.Board go for broke and do something different…different to what some of them have been doing for the last 40 years?

It is notable that the Golden Goose has finally laid all the golden eggs …..crowds have been down unbelievably this season…even the crowd quoted for the packed Connacht Final was supposedly 'doctored' so that it had a few more than the sell out Connacht rugby match back in March v Munster.

With ticket sales now instant,Croke Park HQ know what is coming in on the spot not like the old days when 'cash was king' and it took a few days to count and send 'a few bob up' to Dublin. Infact if marketing was correct there is a great opportunity now to 'push sales' if the crowd figures in the days preceding matches do not look great.Thankfully the day of the 'biscuit tin' and then the leather 'saddlebag' is no more ….but sure didn't some build houses and rear families on it….oh,that's shocking!…but do not tell anyone wink wink!

Watching this Galway game as a Mayo fan is genuinely disheartening. It only reinforces how poorly coached and ill-prepared the current Mayo team is, particularly when it comes to adapting to the new rules. Galway scored three 2-pointers in the first half alone. By contrast, Mayo have only managed three across all their games against Sligo, Leitrim, Galway, Cavan, Tyrone, and Donegal combined.

Can you imagine someone like Aidan O'Shea thrown into that Galway setup? He'd look completely out of place — like a fish out of water, surplus to their requirements of being brave and ruthless in front of goal.

But, true to form, Mayo continue to shoehorn midfielders, non-scorers, and players picked on reputation into the starting 15, rather than building a coherent team suited to the modern game.

O'Shea does a lot of good things but he wouldn't get into the forward lines of the top 4 teams as he rarely scores. The dearth of scoring forwards in Mayo means he gets a place.

in terms of levels and position etc

The fairest comparison is probably Ryan O Donoghue and Rob Finnerty

This year there is no comparison

Finnerty hands down

There's every chance he would start for the other top teams but they are not so reliant on one player - except maybe Dublin. Armagh's inside forward line are nothing special - I am pretty sure none of them scored from play in the final last year. I think Galway would love to have O'Shea at 14 so that they could have Thompson and Finnerty feeding off him with Walsh at 11. Donegal have their own O'Shea in Michael Murphy who is obviously a better all round player. Dublin would love to have him at full forward and Con at 11 with Small and Costello in the corners. I reckon Tyrone would be delighted to have him too.

Basically management teams know how effective he is, even if he is only scoring a point from play every other game. He wins frees, provides structure to a forward line, is a superb tackler, and makes so many assists.

Mayo's scoring problem is elsewhere. Ryan may be our best forward but his form is poor and he is not reliable from play. We play without a third inside forward, which really annoys me. Darren McHale likes to float between 11 and 14. Carney is absolutely not a forward. Flynn and Ruane are generally reliable. Our backs are awful when it comes to scoring from play - bar one game this year for Coen and a goal from McBrien. Hession should be scoring way more, McBrien too. Whatever happens, Mayo have to add more scorers to their team next year. Ideally by playing a natural corner forward, whether that is Towey or one of the up and coming lads.

Agreed the forwards need to score more but we need to play forwards more often. Look how well McHale did when given a run of games. Flynn has generally been very reliable from play so I wouldn't worry about him, he will come good again and is an excellent no.10/12. Mattie is hit and miss, but all midfielders are. He scores well by comparison will all midfielders.

I think Aiden would be much more effective than Mathew Tierney in Galway's forward line. Tierney is being show horned into a lot of positions that don't suit him. Boland should have started at wing forward v. Donegal instead of Touhy - that was a fcuk up by Rochford. He should start every game given Mayo's lack of two point shooters.

With the two pointers now, natural forwards are winning out on this scene if they go from distance. Outside of ROC, we don't really have natural forwards who will consistently deliver or even try from distance. Flynn for example could easily be a decent half back against been a forward. Mchale goes missing alot, Carney is not really a forward or if he is… he leaves it at home. AOS is not a natural forward. Boland is grand but on the physical side of things will be found wanting. Neary looks a natural forward who wants to score but is young. I thought Irwin at the start of the league looked decent but then he got dropped… never to be seen. Conroy is a forward but he can never wait fit and by all accounts was gone from the panel before the Donegal game. All these guys work their arses off at different times but it's like they are going against the grain.

The minors yesterday reminded me of the current Mayo team as they did exactly what the seniors did. It was there for the taking but messed up with sloppy play, lacked conviction to go for two pointers, put the knife in when they went a point up with a few minutes remaining. They had the wind in the first half and never went for two pointers with the exception of Maye who was excellent. Kerry lobbed three in the second half in a blink of an eye. It's like we are stuck in ground hog day playing football at all levels. I would be pissed if I was Heaney as that was Mayo's game. Heaney was happy in his interview, but he has to be seriously annoyed over that loss!!!

what about Pateen? any world on him?

As far as I can see Touhy hasn't performed in any game either as a starter or sub. A while back he got the occasional point when given plenty of room on the ball but that seems to have dried up.

No aggression or physical presence so It's difficult to see why he got so much game time.

Is there any evidence that players on the bench are better than what's on the field? Would those unhappy panel players be subs by any chance? Players on the first 15 rarely complain about selections.

Gardiner and Heaney strike me as fair and decent men who have years of playing experience. Rather than going down the road of blaming all our managers maybe we should look at the skillset of the players available to them. Decision making and football skills tend to be formed at younger age groups. I believe that's where the issue is.

I don't know those players so I can't comment on that either way. When I mentioned the managers decency I meant they wouldn't have any agendas and would only favour a player over another in terms of ability. Opinions differ on ability of course.

I'm in full agreement about an outside senior manager. The internal names bandied about don't inspire me to believe that things would be much different. Ideally an outsider who has won the all Ireland and would challenge the players to get more put of them. We are still an attractive option with a solid spine of players and some good underage prospects to bring in.

The thinking is that an outside manager would not tolerate the bullshit that comes along with the County set up. They wouldn't have biases towards players from certain clubs as they would be completely objective when it comes to the origins for a player.

I also think we are at a point where we need an outsider as I believe there is a clearout needed. Some of the senior players that are there are not filling the role of a senior player and pushing standards off the pitch in my opinion. The hope would be that an outside manager would come in and push these players to the side and pull the talent through from underage, make better use of the new rules, actually start a front 6 made up of actual natural forwards that play forward positions for their clubs, promote kicking and the creative football that they are better at playing.

I have met Swanny in person and I do believe he is a direct person that doesn't beat around the bush, what he said about what's going on in the camp was enough for me that change is needed, and change to somebody new, not Horan again, not Rochford again, please god not Maughan again!

All of these things can be done by an inside manager. Outside managers will bring biases too, even if they don't come from watching club football in Mayo. O'Hora is definitely direct and I like that he speaks his mind but the attitude shown in the Galway, Tyrone, and Donegal games tell us that there were minimal problems within the camp because the players gave absolutely everything.

There is that angle that outside managers have rarely won an All Ireland.

However, there's also an opposing angle that there's no Mayo man alive who has won an All Ireland so why not look outside to someone who has.

I would certainly be more excited by an McConville type appointment than a Moran type appointment at this stage.

Not saying outside is better than inside per se... But it's time to shake things up a little... a lot.