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Who controls the narrative?

  • 19-06-2025 11:30PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 220 ✭✭


    Who controls this? Is it the media? The government? The people?

    Things like racism, sexism, homophobia, Aporophobia (which is a word that needs to be more recognised imo) ...

    Maybe im biased to my own views on these things but usually, the general idea is the obvious moral that everyone is equal but I dont always see that in my day to day....



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Generally things like opposing homophobia etc start at a more grassroots level and climb up the levels. The media opposing such things is more a matter of reading the room.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 220 ✭✭Stevies girl


    So its the people? The majority? To me it seems like the general narrative is ok/good on the majority of things right now but im not sure if im biased to my own beliefs.…and also is that really reflective in the law, government, the people?…

    I see crazy **** supported all the time particularly by the people (say social media or just in person) and I also see law crap that doesn't really reflect on any of it. Same with mental health even.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,369 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    The people do but the people do not control themselves. So the people want to be entertained, like a story they need friction and controversy, so they will read click watch mad **** they would never actually agree with in their hearts. It's a complete **** disaster. The media monetize the show and .make more extreme content and opinion, more watch . People get attention for controversy or extreme opinion, it gets amplified on social media because it gets more clicks and more monetization. The media and social media have massively amplified our collective ignorance and laziness which has led to the politics we see today.

    It's also why incumbents will never be reelected again. Because we want to blame something external for our life's failures, so it must always be the government and social media and media amplify this and its maximum friction/entertainment. Except for Ireland somehow seems to be hanging on by it's fingertips



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 220 ✭✭Stevies girl


    I get all that but how does anyone explain the general lip service? While i agree with most it…who is behind it? Who's propelling views? Because what i see in general is not what how do i say....not intelligent views….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,659 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Even if this perception is correct, it doesn't follow that someone is orchestrating, directing or controlling the promotion of the non-intelligent views.

    Humans, acting collectively, frequently do not act rationally; it's as simple as that. This manifests itself in various ways, but one of the commonest is notions becoming fashionable, acheiving traction, etc for reasons that have nothing to do with the inherent qualities of the notions themselves. (There's a classic book on the more extreme examples of this — Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. Worth a read.)

    I think the trend is intensified in our own time because we have a commodified and commercialised information/entertainment market. Once an idea starts to acheive this kind of traction, it is heavily promoted and reinforced by people who, basically, make money by amplifying ideas that have currency. They need not be doing this because they like or believe the ideas, or for some social engineering purpose; they're doing it to make money.

    Obviously, this isn't always the case. Musk, for example, acquired Twitter so that he can promote right-wing views and suppress centrist and left-wing views. Admittedly, he does this primarily to make money, but he specifically wants to make money by promoting a certain political viewpoint, and Twitter's algorithms are tweaked accordingly. Whereas those who control TikTok or Instragram, for example, may have sinister intentions but they don't seem to care very much what notions they promote on their platforms; any notion that finds traction will do equally well for their purposes.

    Post edited by Peregrinus on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭plodder


    A current example of "the narrative being controlled" is the albeit trivial in the grand scheme of things, but stlll cynical drip feed of information by the National Lottery about the 250 million euro win.

    They've known probably since straight after the draw, exactly where the ticket was bought, but they drag it out to try and whip up more public interest in it. I wonder if they've over done it this time?

    The same kind of thing happens in more serious cases when someone with information chooses the best time to release it to the media, eg damaging information about a candidate for an election.

    But, is there some coherent structure to all this, driving one big narrative? Of course not. But, it's not surprising that some people might think there is. There is a strong human need to believe everything happens for a reason.

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,757 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    So everything is a singular narrative?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,267 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    usually, the general idea is the obvious moral that everyone is equal …

    That in itself is a "narrative" that doesn't correspond to any reality. As individuals, as a species, as communities, as countries, we are all very unequal which inevitably leads to competition or conquest. The pursuit of, or rebellion against, this creates the conditions for "narratives" of all kinds, some of which will be louder, stronger or more emotive than others.



  • Subscribers Posts: 43,374 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Some people need apophenia in their lives, or are affected by it more than others.

    The best thing would be if everyone realised that there is no separate over-arching entity controlling their lives, but actually they are responsible for themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,337 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Who controls the British crown?

    Who keeps the metric system down?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭prunudo


    If we were truly to debate who controls the narrative then we should go to the CT thread, but for the simplest take though, it is those that provide the funding that control the narrative. Follow the money, because it always comes back to the money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,828 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,102 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    who controls the media? the public do. in the sense that (mentioned by someone else above), the media that sells is the media that people buy. it's not that people buy the daily mail because they hate it, they buy it because they like it. the DM know what sells.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,136 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    lol, no, it's not the public driving the media, we went from the EU getting offended by accusations of NGO's influncing the news to a complete 360 in a matter of weeks,

    EU goes on the offencive, https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/06/07/european-commission-goes-on-the-offensive-in-ngo-accusations-case

    then it folds and opens a pobe https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-parliament-creates-official-body-to-probe-ngo-funding/

    We've over 34,000 NGOs in Ireland taking over 6 billion of tax payers money a year, that's what's driving the narrative along with corporate influence not mom and pop buying a paper.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭thatsdaft




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,664 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Big pharma+ aided and abetted by the media who spread the narrative. Directed & dictated from the top down. Sometimes we put a spanner in the works which stalls the narrative. Take the recent March 2024 referendums for example which stopped it in it's tracks, for now …..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭plodder


    I can't read this without singing it out loud now

    Who controls the meed-ee-uh?

    The public do … 🎵

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭Marcos


    Unfortunately the EU isn't one monolithic body. From your links, the first one is the EU Commission which has been accused of paying NGOs to lobby for actions it wants i.e. lobby for stricter. This goes against the long precedents of civil service being apolitical and merely implementing policy. A civil service is supposed to be neutral as governments can change, but it remains to implement policy.

    The EU parliament, which has the democratic mandate that the Commission lacks, has just voted to investigate the Commissions activities in this area.

    "The idea for the scrutiny body started when EPP lawmakers in the budgetary control committee

    accused the Commission of financing NGOs to lobby Parliament on its behalf via public contracts."

    If true, this is a gross violation.

    Edit it looks like it is true. From your first link even the Budget Commissioner says that:

    I have to admit that it was inappropriate for some services in the Commission to enter into agreements that oblige NGOs to lobby members of the European Parliament specifically

    So as far as the Commission and their NGO counterparts are concerned the narrative is that yes it may have been inappropriate, but nothing to see here folks. Trust us, we are on the side of the angels. And it is a right wing plot that wants to stop us doing this.

    Not something the majority of the EU parliament agrees with.

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,330 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Wrong. People's consumption habits control the media.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Joe1919


    There is an idea in sociology of 'Norm Entrepreneur' that I will let the link below explain. When I was working, I was part of a trade union that engaged successfully in particular campaigns (that were initiated by particular members/leaders) that were beneficial to the members.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_entrepreneur



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Are you claiming big pharma is defining our referendums? That's a very vague and random claim tbh.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,330 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,757 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    It, as in singular?
    I have a feeling this thread will be like an email conversation between Jordan Peterson and Russel Brand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,136 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    so who’s payroll are you on, it’s quite obvious when someone supports the current thing they’ve skin in the game, not buying someone just trusts the government. A poor attempt at shutting down a conversation by branding both sides as something that could be considered toxic people. Try harder the next time.

    Mod: Warning issued for Trolling

    Post edited by Trigger on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,757 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Ah the whose payroll “narrative “.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,949 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Untitled Image

    Surely everyone knows that…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 350 ✭✭littlefeet


    Why are those who build houses for profit called property developers in Ireland and home or house builders in the UK? That's a narrative.

    A Uk cultural commentator who is generally considered a bit of a crank but an intelligent, educated crank, he opposes same sex marriage for complicated, highly nuanced ideas about the place of marriage in society, not because he is homophobic, modern social media has drowned any nuance in debate, debate has been reduced to if you are not for me you are against me and thats it.



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