Donald Trump the Megathread part II - mod warnings in OP, Updated 06/06/25

Where I feel your argument falls down is the supposition that oppression by the state would require them to act unlawfully. Even disregarding SCOTUS giving Trump carte blanche immunity, there are many broadly worded laws that would allow them to act, while also violating individuals rights. We have seen this multiple times already. Agents carrying out orders to round up and deport people, without serving warrants or filing charges, and without affording them due process. The law would say that's illegal, Trump says otherwise. Who has the final say? You can claim that the courts can sort it out afterwards, but that does little to help someone trafficked to a torture facility in El Salvador. You're also presuming that the courts will adhere to the law, when we've seen numerous rulings from MAGA aligned judges that upend precedent to facilitate Trump. The Republican Congress has abrogated their duties as a co-equal branch and check on the executive. Robert's court has reached the final stages of his decades long destruction of American democracy, and his only concern seems to be the court's survival, rather than upholding the Constitution.

You continue to afford the government the benefit of the doubt, when all evidence shows a clear intent to create conditions for an authoritarian state. These events in LA are shaping operations to create the pretext for enacting emergency powers. Project 2025 laid the gameplan out in detail. There are little to no restrictions on the Presidents emergency authorities. He can rule by dictate, which has always been Trump's desire. Where that intersects with the military is what we're seeing now. To begin with, using them as a shield for the illegal actions of ICE and other agencies. We can see that the administration is keen to weaponise Palantir to create the sort of intel fusion used in counter-terrorism operations overseas against US citizens. An emergency is declared, the military are put on the streets. Martial law is enacted, masked goons round up dissidents. This is a well worn path.

What of the Trump statement that USMC Pers will be put on the ground in LA, they being regular standing military and not Nat Gd Unit pers? One of the numerical figures given for the deployed Nat Gd Pers was that of several [3] hundred only, not two thousand. If the two thousand figure is an actual reality and not just a Trumpism it would allow for rotation, rest and the cooks, Tpt & POL etc needed for a large Nat Gd commitment and no MC commitment, another display of Trumpism to scare the local Pols and state law enforcement agencies.

One major visible point yesterday was the armaments the Nat Gd were carrying while on the skirmish line, not batons and shields but actual fire-power. There seems to have been a decision [good in my opinion] made to have them used to protect the federal buildings at the centre while LAPD & some other agency [CHP] are deployed in front-line crowd control.

One thing I would not like to see is the military being used as a political tool by Trump for the promotion of Trumpism. If it came to that, I'd hope to see the new top generals make it clear, via congress, that they were not going to stand by and let Trump use them for political gain within the US, that they would use the US media to officially order the troops to stay in Bks if Trump tried to abuse the national authority power by ordering regular military onto the streets to forcefully coerce the US civilian population into being Trump puppets.

Even in likes of Turkey one used to assume the military would uphold the secular democracy that their “founding father” Ataturk created

In US we can’t make such assumptions, the replies from someone representing armed forces above are just damned depressing

we reached the “so this is how a democracy dies” stage

I've never understood this idea that just because someone is “elected” they have the right to do anything they damn well please. You can elect someone on a particular platform and they'll subsequently go off and do the complete opposite of everything they said they would, as we see far too often.

AFAIC, that should be grounds for a re-election if a pattern develops into someone's tenure.

With regards to military situations, "I was only following orders" has been around for a long, long, time. It's associated with the Germans, but every military on the planet use/used it. If a soldier is ordered to do something, whether they agree with it or not, they carry out that order. It's rare, very rare, that you would get any personnel refusing to carry out a direct order from a superior. And senior officers carry out the orders of the day as passed down by the leaders of their nation.

That's the way a military works and has always worked.

I'm often reminded of the line in Sam Peckinpah's 'Cross of Iron', where Maximilian Schell's character states "I am a soldier and as a soldier I feel it is my duty to subordinate my own ideas to the principles of my country. Right or wrong." Which is a position that can leave one open to abuse, but also acts as an absolution of sorts.

His governent isn't exactly the definition of 'functioning'....

Pretty sure Musk never tweeted that one.

Haven't our government here said something similar.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/government-consider-face-mask-crackdown-after-dublin-riots-2160055

There you go. No need to get narky now. Hadn't realised the context.

It is nothing like that

It seems Don Jnr has offered his opinion on the LA situation with a tweet including a photo of what he describes as a Korean-American businessman with a rifle on a rooftop during the LA riots with the intent to use the rifle on people on the street, with the witty catchphrase "everyone rioting until the roof starts speaking Korean". Short memory seems to run in the Trump family when it comes to rooftop shooters.

Another journalist was shot with a rubber bullet

Oh that can't be real surely.

Of course, it's always different when the rioters are on your side.

Sending in the military against the civilian population is classic authoritarian regime stuff. I'm surprised more more people aren't joining the dots (though it appears the MAGA half of the population actively 'want' to live in an oppressive authoritarian state, with a dictator as boss and troops on every corner).