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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    I wonder if Trump is even aware of it. Could be Hegseth going solo like previously halting arms deliveries to Ukraine for a period.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,170 ✭✭✭jmreire


    There was an organization called The Mothers of Russia in the early stages of the war, and in past times the same organization had wielded enough influence to bring about changes notably in reducing the nrs of injuries and even deaths brought about by the practice of "Hazing" (Dedovschina). Then Putin declared then an organization under foreign influence, and that finished them. I know several Russians who were labelled as being under foreign influence, whether they actually were or not was immaterial, they became a kind if pariah when it came to getting work or even socializing. Putin is pure poison unleashed on Russia and the world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,170 ✭✭✭jmreire


    There are many people now in Russia, who realise who and what Putin is, and are actively acting against him and his regime. Of course, many of these people would have Ukrainian friends and relatives, and its plain now that a lot of the acts of sabotage occurring's on Russian territory (railway lines being particularly susceptible, but also buildings mysteriously catching fire.) were being carried out by such people. Definitely, these last drone attacks, from Trucks and rail carriages had to have had local input.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,170 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Yes, That and the psychological battle that Ukraine is waging very successfully now against Putin. Putins sole reason for existence, if you like, was his perceived ability and claim to protect Russians. Thats now been shot to pieces (excuse the intended pun) and leaves Putin on very Shakey ground politically.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Oh don't buy into the "one man" fallacy.

    They're are 10s of millions who support an utterly rotten culture that leads to the invasion we're looking at now.

    Russian culture is the root of this war.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,717 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    Exactly, but many of their " elite" have to be feeling the pain also,, Chelsea owner one example, powerful people but Putin is still going ahead which indicates they are supporting the war,so rotten to the core.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,911 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    99% of the Russian elites wish they could go back to the way things were before the war when they, and their families, were free to live lives of luxury and travel the world. If only one could push Putin out a window



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 174 ✭✭EmergencyExit




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,918 ✭✭✭Rawr


    I suspect it’s a bit of a Catch 22 with many of the Russian oligarchs. Many likely daydream of pre 2022, where they could swan about where-ever they damn well pleased on wealth that they believed they would never run out of. The War has ruined much of that for them now. They are all subject to suspicion in the West and there’s nothing at all guaranteed about their future wealth now.

    On the other side of that Catch 22 is the existential threat that an independent Ukraine poses to their preferred way of life. With geniene democracy comes the rule of law, and although often imperfect it does make the naked criminality employed by the likes of Russia’s oligarchs all that much harder to pull off. A Ukraine that successfully pulls away from the Kremlin would likely embolden a Belarusian «Euro-Maidan» and then eventually you’ll have a Russian state bordered by ex-Soviet vassals that have learned to grow and function as part of a liberal Europe.

    This is ultimatly what this war is about. It is about preventing Ukraine from being the first in a series of dominos that will make the current Russian system of power much harder to maintain. This is of concern to both Putin and his oligarch buddies. If they had done nothing, it would only have been a matter of time before Ukraine became so clearly entrenched away from them that they’d never hope to have the means to claw them back. But in doing what they have done, they have now guaranteed that result. Ukraine, both in spirit and in function, has joined the rest of Europe, and the War made sure of that.

    Russian elites will exist for some time to come, but I suspect their presentation will be somewhat different in the future. Less Football club owning London-loiterers, and more tin-pot War Lord patrons holed up in secure compounds around the burned out husk of what we currently call the Russian Federation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,170 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Even more than the elite, the vast n's of "ordinary" Russians would like to go back to how things were before the war, when they didn't have the threat of conscription and death hanging over them. But maybe the Elite will get fed up enough of Putin cramping their lifestyles and do something about it….Unlikely though, Putin has the system set up in such a manner that the health and wealth of those closest to him depends directly on Putin's own health and wealth. Maybe one of the military (like Prigozhin) might take him out in a coup.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,170 ✭✭✭jmreire


    While it may be the oligarchs who take Putin down, I doubt it. He has them in an iron grip, and they are terrified of him. if its anyone from his inner circle, it will be one or perhaps several members of the Silovicki, the KGB / FSP who he worked with in Berlin and brought with him when became President.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,838 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    There are two ways to look at it for sure. Don't disagree with you that there's no way when this is all over that Russians as a whole should be allowed to claim 'not my act'. At the same time, I don't think they're fundamentally different that the populations of most other nations - I don't think there was any great clamour for war from them before the invasion. I guess that most of them just want relative peace and prosperity to do all the mundane and semi-entertaining things that most of us do. They've almost nothing to gain from this war.

    On the other side of things again - to touch on what another poster above suggested… threat of an independent Ukraine - I'm not so sure that this was such a threat to Putin that war was the only option. The Russians seem like a lot who are happy enough to keep plodding along as things are. I don't get the impression that they'd suddenly turn around and think how well Ukraine is doing - we must get a bit of that action for ourselves.

    That said, I don't profess to be a social/ political/ economic expert on all things Russia/ Eastern Europe… to what extent does Putin's regime really need Ukraine and Belarus, in terms of economy? Lots of talk about woowoo Rare Earths since Trump stumbled on the term, but given the vastness of its size and the centralisation of economic and financial power in Moscow, does Putin really need Ukraine and Belarus? There aren't really any other countries that would be candidates for EU membership… would he not be better off focusing on promoting relations with countries on the southern border and trying to milk diplomatic and economic ties there - Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan etc.

    I can't see how Russia comes out of this war in a better position than when it went in, regardless of the battlefield lines and any territory gained.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,635 ✭✭✭zv2


    The Russians must be hysterical trying to cover all their assets.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,838 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,635 ✭✭✭zv2


    This place makes guidance modules for cruise missiles.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    When did Ukraine definitively switch its strategy from trying to take on the Russians on the battlefield - either by regaining territory or contesting every advance to containing the Russians where they are, with minimal military casualties, and instead disembowelling the Russian military machine piece by piece on Russian territory? It's bloody clever and seemingly very effective.

    What options does Putin have now? He can't seem to hit valuable Ukrainian military targets, so he just hits civilian targets and infrastructure. He's clearly thrown everything at battlefield gains and is making f**k all progress. His Black Sea Fleet is castrated, he can't gain air superiority, he's lost a huge section of his entire bomber fleet. He's used up 1,000,000 men. He's seen massive amounts of armour - tanks, AFVs, personnel carriers etc, massive amounts of artillery systems. A significant number of air defence systems. Not to mention the number of ordinary transport and troop carrying vehicles that must be the back bone of any army. Meanwhile his economy is tanking and he's lost a large percentage of the world as trading partners, let alone diplomatic partners.

    He's a bit f**ked if China turns off the tap. Unfortunately China has its own eyes on Taiwan so it's extremely difficult for the West to leverage any pressure on them to squeeze Putin. But even with China's help, that's help at a $$ cost to Russia.

    Huge credit is due to Zelensky for his management of this war. Picking the right people, ousting the right people and letting the right people do their jobs. All while his work ethic in travelling the globe relentlessly courting leaders of countries from East to West is incredible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    Over three years in the arguments that “ordinary” Russians are not in anyway responsible for this continued war and all the attrocities carried out by “ordinary” Russians ring rather hollow no?

    You have Russian wives celebrating when their husbands go to war because they think they can earn a few years worth of income in a year, the problem is that the husband might not survive, tho some don’t view that as a problem but as a positive as husband dying means getting a bonus

    Same women whose kids (and the kids that got kidnapped) get brainwashed in schools and camps



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,127 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    We covered this move a few days ago on this thread. Ultimately the US’s first responsibility is to US troops, and we are all agreed (I think) that the US’s anti-drone defenses need improvement, Ukraine’s’ shipment will come out of later production. It would not play well if a Houthi drone attack or whatever kills Americans and the government says “we could have protected them, but decided to give the kit to another country instead”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    Some decent analysis and clips within this guys video

    Including Russians downing a fibre optic drone with a pair of scissors.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    They are hardly expecting 20,000 houthi drones though. That seems a little excessive.

    Didn't US servicemen already die from a drone attack in Syria last year while the US had this technology?

    Maybe BAE should start to produce the fuses outside of the US.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,427 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    I suspect it is just a way for them to retrospectively gut as much of the last of the Biden admin. military aid as they can (works for anything also used by US military that that needed to be produced first, & has not been delivered yet).

    They can argue the "US military needs are greater now" etc. and divert off whatever is left. The Trump admin. is good at bending the law and finding some workarounds to do what they want to do (here it would be end any Biden-era policy hangover, like the last bits of aid to go out the door and hobble Ukraine)!

    You are fooling yourself (again!) saying they will get it from "later production".

    Maybe if Ukraine (probably Europe in reality) stumps up for it, but even then English language media coming out of Ukraine keeps saying the US is stalling on purchases of critical weapons (Trump's own "he (Zelensky) is always looking to buy missiles" derisory sneer, kind of tallies with that).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Apiarist


    My friend travelled in Russia several times before 2020. He said that the anti-Ukrainian propaganda on TV was relentless. More than 10 years of brainwashing convinced a lot of Russians that somehow Ukraine is the root of their problems.

    Looking from the outside , it is understandable that Putin needs an enemy to cover up the effects of corruption and decay in Russia. Plus nobody stopped him when Crimea was occupied, and a quick, easy way it was done really improved Putin's poll numbers. So another easy win over the whole of Ukraine would have given Putin another huge popularity boost.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Its a much more complex question/ issue than "they're all responsible" / "they're not at all responsible", and unfortunately its not a discussion that tends to go well on internet forums like this with the usual smattering of keyboard warriors hard left/ hard right taking over the discussion and killing debate.

    My point wasn't so much about responsibility for the war anyway, it was more an observation that there didn't appear to be any appetite or clamouring among the average citizen for conflict with Ukraine. Compare it to post 9/11 where there was definitely a clamour in the US to invade someone/ anyone. I think US citizens carry a certain level of responsibility for that conflict. The whole issue of false intel/ misinformation that came out after the fact doesn't excuse them in the same way that Russian's can't blanket point to Putin's stranglehold on information and personal freedoms as excusing them now.

    Every time Putin bombs another apartment block or schoolyard, though, the discussion becomes more and more redundant. It's a bit academic to be debating the degree of Muscovites' moral guilt when they go about their days unperturbed by the war as their military continue to slam missiles into Ukrainian civilian infrastructure.

    Russia and its citizens will pay a heavy price for the destruction they brought about in this war, and rightly so. I don't think any of them, regardless of what kind of regime they lived under, can argue at the financial hardship they'll endure.

    Assuming of course that Trump doesn't actually let them off the hook in exchange for making himself billions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,191 ✭✭✭z80CPU
    Darth Randomer


    ^^^^ And the derogative reference for the contemporary Russian Soldier will be " Orc " just as there term for WW 2 Gernan soldier was " Kraut "

    Your Last paragraph tho is noteworthy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Don't think this has been mentioned yet on here…

    Ukraine claims to have damaged Russian fighter jets in night-time raid | Ukraine | The Guardian

    The Ukrainians really seem to have upped the pressure in the last couple of weeks - they've clearly put a lot of ground work into these operations - both timing and targets. It's obvious that they concluded some time ago that the US could no longer be relied on for traditional military support.

    Hope there's more in the pipeline…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,150 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    image.png

    The signs of torture on this Ukrainian POW, including burned in words "glory to Russia"

    Many Ukrainian POWs are coming back with testimony and signs of systematic torture

    The Putin apologists and supporters are deathly silent on all this of course



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,131 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Israel just transferred an old Patriot battery, so it seems that was a genuine effort.

    Israel transferred Patriot air defense systems to Ukraine - Israeli Ambassador to Ukraine Michael Brodsky

    Post edited by cnocbui on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    Barbarians gonna do barbarian things and not even blink at it while threatening everyone you know with nuclear annihilation if you point out their barbarity and lack of civilisation

    “Blah blah but my Iskander” is a typical reply which one can see only a few pages ago here



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    It's what I'm most worried about. This is a guy who sees past unbelievable human misery and death and just visualises waterfront developments in Gaza. He's capable of anything if it could make him fortunes. He has no moral compass, has reshaped the Republican Party and has constructed an administration in his own image this time around. The sooner the American people open their eyes and cut him off the better.

    In the meantime I sincerely hope the Europeans are working like demons in the background to create an alternative to US-reliance.



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