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Copper "Switch-Off"

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Irish Authorities seem helpless to make it happen. They'd probably be quite pleased to hide behind an EU regulation. Anyway here's the overall rationale.

    Practical need for EU action

    The initiative will have significant added value compared to action taken at Member States level. Strengthening European competitiveness requires access to fast, secure, and resilient digital infrastructure. In a context where the digital connectivity landscape is changing rapidly with convergence of telecom, satellite, cloud and edge technology, driven by virtualisation and AI, the EU will only be able to achieve those objectives through a more harmonised legal environment across the EU that avoids inconsistent national administrative practices or implementation conditions that limit the opportunities of the single market.

    Experience with the EECC shows that Member States have not been able to address the sectoral challenges timely, due to the long time needed for transposition of the Code into national law. In addition, the transposition of directives into national law has been often accompanied by additional layers of rules resulting in overregulation.

    Overall, the scale of the problems in the digital ecosystem requires a legislative initiative at EU level because they have increasingly an EU dimension, and can be more efficiently resolved at Union level, leading to overall greater benefits, more accelerated and harmonised implementation, and lower costs than if Member States acted alone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,493 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Just looking at this, The European Commission has proposed 2030 as the latest date for the decommissioning of the legacy copper networks, in their White Paper - How to master Europe’s digital infrastructure needs?

    While some states have moved on decommissioning copper networks others need a kick up the proverbial to get their act together with a regulation, so that's the purpose if this public consultation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,493 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Draft BEREC Progress Report on managing copper network switch-off, Dec 2024.

    The report shows that currently only 8 EU Member states are on a migration and switch-off path that would lead to an expected switch-off by 2030.

    https://www.berec.europa.eu/en/all-documents/berec/reports/draft-berec-progress-report-on-managing-copper-network-switch-off

    Post edited by The Cush on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭ArrBee


    Well after the storm at the start of the year, we've loads of copper lines down. Obviously no one is using them as they would have been fixed long ago!
    I wish they would come and remove them….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭uncle_sam_ie


    The copper phone lines around my village were recently stolen, and I suspect incidents like this may become more common in the future.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,493 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    There’s no AI staff replacement at Eir, says chief tech officer, and no copper switch-off until after 2030 | Irish Independent (paywalled article)

    Fergal McCann, Chief Technology Officer (CTO), eir



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Sounds very Trumpish. I suppose I'll have to go and buy a copy of this.

    <update>

     We’ve done a submission to Comreg in recent weeks, so we’re waiting for feedback to review that. [Fergal McCann]

    </update>

    Meanwhile, elsewhere in Ireland…..

    It should be noted that the timing of the switch-off is ultimately a commercial matter for Eir subject to it complying with the provisions of ComReg’s decision. However, the Department continues to engage with both ComReg, through a bilateral working group on Copper Switch Off, and Eir to keep apprised of any developments in this area.

    Post edited by clohamon on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,493 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    That article, before the paper goes for recycling

    1000005716.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭feargantae


    I work for eir, though obviously not posting in any sort of official capacity (liomsa na tuairimí amháin etc!) but we lose a surprising amount of sales because of customers not being able to switch to VoBB due to having a monitored/panic alarm that is dependant on the old PSTN line. The sooner the copper switch off happens the better for eir's bottom line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 794 ✭✭✭PixelCrafter


    I’d also just point out that the term ‘copper switch-off’ means different things to different telcos, commentators and even regulators.

    In some countries, they’re calling the move from PSTN/ISDN to IP-based technology 'the shutdown of the PSTN,' which is both accurate and not, depending on how you look at it.

    If we’re just talking about the PSTN/ISDN switchover, that is simply replacing TDM (Time Division Multiplexing)-based telephone switches (the digital ones that have run the traditional phone network since the ‘80s) with VoIP and soft switches - then as far as I’m aware, that’s pretty much done. What Eir and other operators have been doing for years has been moving people to VoBB (voice over broadband) while pruning the old exchanges down to smaller size, and then replacing what's left of them them with a Nokia MSAN platform which is entirely IP based and is basically "POTS emulation". It can still deliver POTS service, but it's just coming from a few racks of IP gear, not a big old 1980s telephone exchange that looks like a mainframe computer of the era. That's why you're getting all those warnings about alarm systems not liking phone lines etc.

    For the most part, the PSTN network is just obsolete to end users as a concept - whether it's TDM based or IP based doesn't really matter to most people, and is just naturally shrinking and disappearing anyway. Most residential users don't bother with landline numbers at all or are very content with just plugging a phone into the back of their broadband router, and businesses have largely moved to IP-based technologies like hosted PBX etc or SIP trunks that have replaced ISDN.

    But copper lines still carrying IP services (like VDSL i.e. FTTC fibre to the cabinet) are likely to hang around a bit longer yet, until full fibre to the home/premises (FTTH/P) is more widely rolled out. There are inevitably a % of premises that are going to take longer to connect to FTTH due to issues with direct buried cables and so on. Some of those households may also just abandon copper anyway and move to 5G+ while waiting for FTTH to arrive, as twisted pair copper technologies are increasingly inferior to mobile broadband.

    Ireland also has also got an issue with lower density housing, which means we'll always be slower than places with high density and apartment dwelling. We also have a bigger % of urban homes on CATV networks than most of Europe, so some of those legacy copper networks are actually capable of providing nearly fibre like services anyway. You'll see similar in Belgium for example. It's not reasonable to compare CATV and POTS copper services.

    You've also got a % of users who aren't going to move off VDSL unless and until they're incentivised or pushed to, as they'll be content with slower broadband and see no advantage in FTTH yet. Plenty of households that will just not really be that excited about it yet.

    But, I think we're ending up talking about two parallel issues in the way this is being discussed in Europe. One is about fibre rollout, the other is about PSTN/ISDN closure. They're only partially related and I just regularly see the two being confused in commentary.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭clohamon


    It seems, from FOI, that ComReg believes it is in a "deliberative process" (S.29 FOI Act) regarding the approval of Eircom's switch-off proposal. ComReg also asserts that information has been "obtained in confidence" (S.35 FOI Act) from Eircom. ComReg has therefore refused access to all records requested, as confirmed by its public interest test.

    From the schedule of refused FOI records; Eircom emailed ComReg (with attachments) on May 12th 2025 and ComReg emailed Eircom on 26th June 2025. Any correspondence later than 1st July would not have been covered by the FOI request.

    From ComReg's switch-off decision the timeframe for the deliberative process is vague and unlimited.

    ComReg does not believe that it is necessary or appropriate to set a maximum time period for its review of Eircom’s Switch-off Proposal in order to allow sufficient flexibility for any inquiry and engagement which may be required with Eircom.

    The good news is that no proposals for Alternative Comparable Products (ACPs), i.e alternatives to FTTH, had been submitted by Eircom by 1st July ; or at least ComReg asserts that it, ComReg, didn't possess any (S.15 FOI Act).

    The full FOI decision is here. (caveats apply, and the highlighting and redactions are mine)

    Post edited by clohamon on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,141 ✭✭✭✭10-10-20




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭clohamon


    The Department and ComReg both include references to Copper Switch-Off in their submissions to the EU's feedback portal on the Digital Networks Act.

    https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-say/initiatives/14709-Digital-Networks-Act_en

    The Commission cited "a lack of proactive measures to foster copper switch-off" and proposed..

     to accelerate copper switch-off by providing a toolbox for fibre coverage and national copper switch-off plans, and by setting an EU-wide copper switch-off date as default, along with a derogation mechanism to protect end-users with no adequate alternatives.

    ComReg's submission

    ComReg agrees with the proposal for a derogation mechanism to protect end users
    with no adequate alternatives in the case of copper switch-off. There may be merit in
    the proposal for a toolbox, depending on the content of the actual toolbox that is
    being envisaged. ComReg notes, for instance that Article 81 EECC currently gives
    NRAs little control over the process, both in terms of commencement and once the
    switch-off plan has been communicated by the SMP operator.

    Departments's submission

    Regarding item (iii) accelerating copper switch off (CSO), a proposed target date for CSO must be
    cognisant of national circumstances. Many Member States are at different stages of CSO and as such,
    one date may suit some Member States more than others. Ireland believes this should be left up to
    the operators to decide.
    As well as that strong safeguards should be in place to ensure end users do
    not incur additional costs such as, for instance, the levying of wholesale or retail price increases as a
    means of incentivising switching to fibre. Therefore, we would also agree with the proposal for a
    derogation mechanism to protect end users with no adequate alternatives in the case of copper
    switch-off.

    Not clear how much the NBI and SIRO business models are dependent on Copper Switch-Off but it's odd that the Department is so dis/uninterested. It stands to reason that, whatever about the state of the poles themselves, the presence of multiple, heavy, wide-diameter, copper cables increases the risk of pole failure in high winds.

    …and Eircom had nothing much to say on the topic.

    Eircom's submission

    With regard to copper switch off, provision of the ‘toolbox’ as proposed by the consultation
    could be helpful, if sufficiently straight forward and if this avoids adding unnecessary complexity.

    Post edited by clohamon on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭clohamon


    It's now two years since the ComReg decision on CSO and no news is no news, but two recent Oireachtas Committee meetings made references.

    2025-11-05 Meeting with NBI (TJ Malone CEO of NBI)

    Mr TJ Malone: We think it [CSO] will take between five and six years from the start to the finish. It is really important this is brought in. I know ComReg is in discussion with Eir at the moment on this issue but it is really important this is brought to fruition.

    2025-11-12 Meeting with ComReg and the Department (Garrett Blaney Chairman of ComReg)

    An Cathaoirleach: How is the copper switch-off going and when is the end date?
    Mr. Garrett Blaney: Copper switch-off is mandatory migration, so all the other options have gone and the person has been told they must have their copper switched off. Our objective in this process is that as few people as possible are caught at that point and that people voluntarily move away from copper, rather than being forced to.
    An Cathaoirleach: Okay, what is the end date or is there an end date?
    Mr. Garrett Blaney: There is no date. The process is that we will get a submission from Eir on when this copper switch-off will happen. We are still waiting for this submission. We have set out in a decision the things that Eir must do to try to protect consumers as part of this, so we avoid a situation where customers are being told at short notice.

    Post edited by clohamon on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 794 ✭✭✭PixelCrafter


    From what I gather the EU is quite unimpressed with Ireland's progress on this and sees a lot of red tape and foot dragging by ComReg on the process.

    The problem Eir now faces is that the equipment that runs the remnants of the PSTN is completely obsolete and no longer supported by vendors - compelling them to keep it running isn't really an option tbh - the options are basically replacement with VoIP over fibre at some kind of like-for-like basis with PSTN, even if you don't use broadband internet (quite common in France for example) - you just get a fibre service and a router, and if you only use it for a dial tone and PSTN, so be it - still cheaper / easier than maintaining a parallel copper network, or replacement with mobile services, including allowing your PSTN number to be ported to a SIM card as a landline replacement sevice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Presumably Eircom have weighed the cost savings against the investment required to ensure 100% FTTP per exchange area.

    Maybe they see some advantage in frustrating the government target date of 2028 for 100% FTTP. Possibly hoping for a subsidy if they wait long enough.

    …and difficult to know what they could be discussing with ComReg all these months if not some dilution of the terms of ComReg's decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Minister O'Donovan once more. Que sera sera. And unfazed by European deadlines.


    Deputy Colm Burke asked the Minister for Culture, Communications and Sport the progress made to date by his Department in relation to the decommissioning of the copper broadband network, taking into account that the European Commission has set 2030 as the preferred deadline date for the complete switch-off of copper networks across Europe; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [68966/25]

    Patrick O'Donovan Minister for Culture, Communications and Sport
    The Government’s Digital Connectivity Strategy (DCS) aims to have all Irish households and businesses covered by a gigabit network by 2028.
    The main copper network is owned by Eir (a private entity) and as such the ongoing operation and maintenance of this network is a matter for them. The process by which eir can retire this network is laid out in ComReg Decision D09/23, “Framework for the Migration from Legacy Infrastructure to Modern Infrastructure.”
    The starting point of the transition process is by way of a proposal by Eircom (‘Eircom’s Switch-off Proposal’) providing ComReg with information on how Eircom plans to migrate from its legacy network to modern infrastructure. When ComReg is satisfied that Eircom’s Switch-off Proposal fulfils the Framework conditions set out in this Decision, ComReg will approve it at which point Eircom’s Switch-off Proposal becomes Eircom’s Switch-off Plan (the ‘Switch-off Plan’). The Framework for the transition from Legacy Infrastructure to Modern Infrastructure, consists of three phases: An Enablement Phase; A Migration and Switch-off Phase; and A Decommission Phase.
    To date no plan has been approved by Comreg.
    It should be noted that the timing of the switch-off is ultimately a commercial matter for Eir subject to it complying with the provisions of ComReg’s decision. However, the Department continues to engage with both ComReg, through a bilateral working group on Copper Switch Off, and Eir to keep apprised of any developments in this area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭heavydawson


    Was driving to Cashel from Tippery today and there was a Circet/KNET crew pulling down the copper wire near Kilfeakle. They had one side of the road completely cleared of all of the copper cable (They were rolling it up on the ground and putting it into the back of a truck). Only the fibre was left on the poles. Has the copper switch off begun? Or are they stripping wires in areas with no remaining copper customers for example?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,146 ✭✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Probably some lads removing the copper pretending to be Circet/KNET.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 794 ✭✭✭PixelCrafter


    I don't think OpenEir's been given permission to strip out the copper network yet.

    What has been happening is the wind-down of the PSTN - the remaining lines can be run off VoIP MSANs hanging off the same IMS infrastructure used for VoBB and eir Mobile. Still dial tone and analogue POTS but just saves them maintaining large old mainframe like technologies that ran the PSTN and are long past vendor support.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Formal 'Copper Switch-Off proceeds by exchange area. Eircom are supposed to get each plan approved by ComReg including 100% coverage by agreed alternative technologies and service products. There's meant to be notice periods to retailers and customers. Decommissioning is the last part.

    Screenshot 2025-12-17 at 15.29.48.png

    ComReg told the Oireachtas Committee on 12th Nov that they had still not received a plan from Eircom.

    Elsewhere Eircom apparently told the Department that 80% of the 6,000 poles downed by Storm Eowyn was due to falling trees, but it stands to reason that the fibre is more secure if they take away the copper.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭clohamon


    EC has now published the Digital Networks Act (proposal) - subject to approval.

    Finally, the DNA will support and accelerate transition from copper networks to a full fibre environment that serves the future connectivity needs of citizens and business. The DNA introduces mandatory national transition plans to ensure the sustainable phase out of copper networks and secure the best possible outcome for consumers and all operators. The ex-ante regulatory framework is also updated to support the transition to fibre and, at the same time, address the possible challenges in the future full fibre environment, to maximise the benefits for end users.

    Anytime before 2035-12-31 Member States can mandate CSO areas* (where 95% already FTTP) by national law, and to be completed within three years of enactment.

    … but also some hard interim deadlines. I think as follows…

    • 2028-05-31 Deadline for Member States to list and delimit Copper Switch-Off areas (A.55.3)
    • 2029-06-30 Deadline to publish list of areas where 95% passed by FTTP. To be updated annually. (A.58.3)
    • 2029-10-31 Deadline for Member States to prepare a 'fibre transition plan' containing information on coverage, 95% threshold, milestones, non-viable areas, and enabling measures; for all areas (A.56.1)
    • 2035-12-31 Mandatory Switch-Off deadline for all areas. (A.54.2)

    *assumed CSO areas are old exchange areas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Eircom’s new copper migration incentive has been turned down by ComReg.

    Unlike the previous scheme, ComReg says the new incentive would encourage retailers to favour openeir, have "loyalty inducing effects", and that the discount (max €2.50/mth) was unlikely to be passed on to customers.

    https://www.comreg.ie/publication/response-to-consultation-and-final-decision-on-assessment-of-a-wholesale-ftth-discount-scheme-wn2025-21-notified-by-eircom-limited-under-comreg-decision-d05-24

    Under WN2025-021, the discounted price is conditional on Access Seekers [retailers] achieving a 15-20% higher FTTH growth on the Eircom network during a six-month eligibility period starting June 2026, than their 2025 average FTTH growth. Discounts on new FTTH connections would apply for 24 months from January 2027, with "new connections" defined as premises not previously on Eircom FTTH, including copper migrations but excluding FTTH-to-FTTH on-net transfers.
    According to Eircom, the notified discounts are designed to "drive FTTH connection growth, promote competition in the FTTH market and build momentum for CSO".

    ComReg, however, is not satisfied that this [Copper Switch-Off] will not be at the expense of fair competition between Eircom and other network operators including in particular, SIRO and Virgin Media.



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