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N5 - Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge [underway]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,044 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,007 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    We all know very well that they'll drive. But that doesn't mean the whole village has to be one big miserable carpark. Are the people of rural Ireland so cursed that on a fine day they aren't allowed to sit outside and have a coffee or a pint without having to look at parked cars or breathing diesel soot from that guy who's sitting in his car with the damned engine running because he's listening to the radio...?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,044 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    I agree. Parking could be provided nearby, and not necessarily on the main street, but some of the commentary seems to forget that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Which commentary specifically? The only person I can see lacking nuance is the person suggesting entire towns (and apparently their entire approach roads??) would be pedestrianised.

    I literally said 'pedestrian first, cars as guests' not 'cars banned for a 10km radius around all towns'.

    As for 'How will the pedestrians reach the town?'

    Shocking as it may seem, I believe some people already live in towns rather than simply driving to them from their one off bungalows.

    I never suggested that people would be unable to drive to towns, but if 20/30% radiating out from the core of every bypassed town was a Pedestrian zone (with local access etc as needed) I think a very significant number of towns and villages would have a chance to become a place people want to actually spend time in, instead of getting in and out of the local shops as quickly as possible so they don't have to spend any time looking at the car sewer needed to facilitate their convenience.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,044 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    I think you do not fully accept the reality of businesses most of whose business comes from a wider area than the town itself. It is a question of balance, you can turn the main street into a linear park, but that will force long established businesses elsewhere and then there will be feck all people in the town.

    Also the new N5 is some distance from towns, local traffic still needs to pass through, unless your are proposing another local bypass.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    I'm not proposing closing most roads to cars at all! I'm proposing making the main streets of towns have greatly expanded pedestrian first areas (widened pavements, narrowed car lanes, pavement treatments that psychologically tell drivers they are guests in a pedestrianised area.)

    Where a town has suitable alternative routes for cars outside the centre, prevent through running for cars in the centre (So not limiting visitor access at all, just people using the town to pass through, which is what the bypass is for)

    I'm literally making a broad general statement on all bypass projects in Ireland, there are obviously going to be specific scenarios where more or less work needs to be done depending on a specific town or villages circumstances (Hint: that work would be done as part of the bypass planning in my envisaged scenario).

    My point is that we cannot continue with the following:

    1. "Traffic in town x is terrible, we need a bypass!"
    2. Builds Bypass without traffic reduction measures in the town
    3. "Traffic in town x is terrible, we need a (second) bypass!"

    The term 'artery' is often used for key roads, it is appropriate, and if roads are arteries, towns are hearts, you can give them a bypass at great cost but the more effective method of fixing them is with a healthier diet.

    I'm saying that you should not be able to build a bypass without remediation of the old road (especially through towns) being part and parcel of the process.

    It should not be a "ah we will get to that later" situation because then the road becomes the councils problem instead of TIIs and it will never get done.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 941 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    10 minute video on the project, posted recently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 941 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    1000015710.jpg 1000015709.jpg 1000015708.jpg

    Couple of new pics courtesy of the local paper. The N61 is also being closed for 3 months to facilitate tie in works. I'm surprised they would close a main route for so long!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Great to see solid progress. They've had a great spell of weather recently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 941 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    Tender out for archaeology services for the active travel works planned for Tulsk to Rathcrogan. I have never seen archaeology services required for an AT scheme, but I suppose it's not surprising given the area.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,266 ✭✭✭paulbok




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 941 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    f5c151f4-81e8-4e79-a7cb-22086376554b-1_all_35384.jpg f5c151f4-81e8-4e79-a7cb-22086376554b-1_all_35386.jpg

    Latest satellite views from 2 weeks ago. The entire route appears to well underway apart from a short stretch east of Strokestown.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,266 ✭✭✭paulbok


    Aside from that short section on the east side, you would expect that the rest of the length is progressed enough that all but exceptionally bad weather will hold up progress. Definitely if the summer continues the way it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,421 ✭✭✭plodder


    Very interesting video and fascinating to see those young women driving the enormous dumper trucks. Just curious what kind of license do you need to drive them?

    “The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their proper name.” - Confucius



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 ekk19


    https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1BPJxJbU51/?mibextid=wwXIfr

    Few pics of N61 works associated with this



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,266 ✭✭✭paulbok


    Road closure in the N61 (Tulsk to Boyle road) further extended to Sept 11th



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Looks like they've finalised and contract signed the public realm works for Strokestown and the design seems to be as dismal as feared. I didn't realise tarmac had such power to 'rejuvenate a towns potential'. Footpaths minimised and cycle lanes appear absent. €8m to be squandered on this.

    https://www.roscommoncoco.ie/en/news-events/latest%20news/rejuvenating-strokestowns-potential-contract-signing-16th-sept-2025.html?fbclid=IwQ0xDSwM3njRleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHumU2tasra29uiz-mwQLyfxrZYIdsBgWKg4CoGZc0hKOnlozDMM6sUx2kVzm_aem_2HCeqWCnf1VIh8AV6T2POQ



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,197 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    The only place to put cycle lanes would be along that main market street so about 800m of a straight cycle lane maybe a touch more?

    The other streets are too narrow so you lose the ability to have the area of the town where most businesses are, linked by cycle lanes.

    I'd view it all as a waste of money similarly to how I view the works in Ballaghaderreen and Frenchpark. Things are being done in the wrong order imo.

    Money put towards encouraging commercial enterprises in these areas would be so much more effective at rejuvenating them.

    A cycle lane linking The Rathcroghan Mound and Oweynagat cave to Tulsk would be a development that'd have so much more substance.

    Start there and then think about continuing on to Strokestown house/park. In the end then you've something that's actually worthwhile.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,558 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    It doesn't really work like that. Once the "public realm" in Strokestown is done, that's it for the next few decades. Strokestown has millions of € to spend to make the town an attractive place to visit but the locals only want to tarmac the place for parking spaces. Do you really think that after whatever works are finished, that they'll be going back to change that?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,197 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    Oh I know well but shur that's the problem. People don't come to see nice footpaths and raised flower beds and a bit of a cycle lane either.

    It needs to be something of substance to bring in the quantity of people needed to make nice business ventures viable or to attract workers who would frequent these other local businesses on their lunch break or after work.

    Without substance these are just window dressing exercises.

    People will and do just go to other more attractive towns like Carrick on Shannon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Supporting commerce and enterprise is a totally different funding source. Its like when I hear people say don't support active travel and put the money into health system instead. Nothing wrong with making aesthetic and active travel improvements to any town.

    Even if theres only 1 street suitable that street should have cycle lanes and generous footpaths. It still has a hinterland and people living in estates close to town.

    The town obviously applied or accepted the idea of public realm improvements. But the project should have been cancelled when the locals and businesses wanted car dominance to continue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,266 ✭✭✭paulbok


    The locals were never against the streets getting done up and made more appealing. The main issue is the amount of car parking lost on the two wide streets with no off- street alternative provided.

    A design that improved the look of and access into the town, without losing too many parking spots could easily have been developed, and they have missed a trick in not making a 'plaza' out of Bawn St, from the roundabout down to the Park House gates, which would be relatively easy to close off to hold events like an Xmas market or food fair. Delineation of the parking areas from the main road would have been a great start, perhaps with lines of cobblestone to give a tactile edge for cars parking close to it.

    Coupled with that is the lack of faith in Roscommon co co's ability to design anything that actually improves a town. They made a balls of Roscommon Town Sq and had to rip half it up after a year or two, even yet with that 'structure' it's neither one thing or another.

    They have already made a hames of the N5 to Roscommon Town junction by the garage in Strokestown, shrinking the junction so much, lorries cannot take the turn without mounting kerbs. At least that is keeping the weeds down on the new 'flower bed' that went in with no ongoing maintenance provided. That junction did need to be reduced but not to the extent it was. Neither Ballaghadereen nor Frenchpark are a glowing success either.

    There have been quite a number of businesses that have closed down in the town over the last few years, I think with the new cafe open on Church St, there are 3 operating on it now with at least 8 empty. Cycle lanes and multiple planters full of weeds are not going to change that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Streets done up and made more appealing without active travel measures and public realm areas incorporated would be a waste of time. It would not be a town first plan and certainly not worthy of the level of funding provided. The plan was to incorporate all this and link it to Strokestown house as a masterplan. The locals have put in a large protest against the plan under the guise of concern over parking spaces. The council have stated that the remaining spaces would be more than adequate for the daily needs of the town but the locals are not for listening. A missed opportunity.

    https://www.roscommonherald.ie/news/council-says-strokestowns-public-realm-project-is-a-once-in-lifetime-opportunity-for-town_arid-19783.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,044 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    It strikes me that this article is rather data free. How many cars are currently parked in the town? Is there a statement somewhere that the proposed scheme exceeds the number of parked cars for 95% or 99% of the time? The council should show their calculations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,197 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    You could cycle or walk from around Pat Brogan's tractors to Strokestown house right now without a care in the world safely away from the n5 there's ample space more than you'd find in nearly any other urban setting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Westernview


    It could be useful for the council to publish the data but I doubt it would have any effect. When the objectors believe that up to 90% of parking spaces would be under threat I think they are beyond reach. That would involve pedestrianising almost the entire town which is obviously nonsense.

    If the space is there then why not segregate it fully? The roundabout also needs measures to give more protection and safety to cyclists and pedestrians and this would attract more users. That's what good active travel designs are all about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Yeah if its possible to safely do it now, where would the harm be in highlighting and explicitly protecting that safe route so that less confident cyclists and non locals are made aware of the safe route available?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,266 ✭✭✭paulbok


    Where have any objectors said 90% of spots were under threat in the current plan?

    There are currently approximately 450 parking spots on the two wide streets, that is due to be cut to ~270, so around 40% lost.

    The original plan would have been close to that 90%, it would have barely left enough spots for residents on the streets.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Westernview


    From the article link I posted yesterday

    Local residents fear that parking in the town could be restricted by up to 90% against current levels if the public realm plan goes ahead.

    The town must be busier than I thought if 270 parking spaces is inadequate for the daily operation of the place. The extensive parking areas either side of church street are usually very sparsely occupied any time I've passed through.

    Screenshot_20250918_125024_Maps.jpg


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