Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Yes, he's been accused of "switching sides" as if there's any more sides to this other than right and wrong. Morgan has just decided not to be on the wrong side any more.

I've not seen any major outlets reporting this, yet. But this could seriously undermine some of the more recent talking points (Hamas stealing aid etc.).

Haaretz

• Israel is arming a Jihadist group in Gaza affiliated with ISIS to counter Hamas, Israeli opposition lawmaker and former defense minister Avigdor Lieberman told Israel's public broadcaster. He compared the move to Netanyahu's past support for Hamas as a way to weaken the Palestinian Authority.
• According to Lieberman, "Israel gave assault rifles and small arms to crime families in Gaza on Netanyahu's orders. I doubt it went through the security cabinet. No one can guarantee these weapons won't eventually be turned against Israel." Responding to Lierbman's claims, PM Netanyahu's office said that "Israel is working to defeat Hamas in various ways, on the recommendation of all heads of the security establishment." Later on Thursday, Netanyahu said Israel mobilized Gazan clans opposing Hamas, and asked "what's wrong with that?"
  
• A new armed Palestinian militia has expanded its presence in southern Gaza, operating in an area under direct IDF control, according to recent satellite images and online videos. Sources in Gaza claim the group consists of roughly 100 men who operate with the IDF's tacit approval. The IDF declined to comment.
• The militia is reportedly led by Yasser Abu Shabab, known locally for his involvement in criminal activity and the looting of humanitarian aid late last year.

I would reiterate they are not a terrorist organisation. I would have held that view in the past when I was completely ignorant of the history. Everything Hamas done in recent times is absolutely legitimate action against an occupying force that is openly genocidal. Killing IDF soldiers that were having a drug rave on occupied territory is legitimate. Taking prisoners of war on occupied territory is legitimate.

It is Israel that does terror attacks deliberately targeting civilians, civilian infrastructure like hospitals and schools, refugee camps, aid trucks, aid staff, journalists in multiple countries. I consider every action against them legitimate.

That's insane too. Hamas terrorists killed innocent men, women and children in despicable circumstances. They are not POWs either, they are hostages. It doesn't matter a jot where they were living when they were attacked, killed or taken hostage. It was a disgusting attack and very wrong. It has caused untold death and hardship to thousands and thousands of Gazans. Violence breeds violence.

What Hamas did on Oct 7th are the actions of terrorists, as are many of the actions of the IDF btw.

Hamas targeted thousands of innocent civilians, and killed hundreds, including women and kids. If you are promoting this as somehow justified, you have more in common with the pro IDF crowd in here than anyone else. Just like them I'm sure you have your reasons, and tbh, I'm sure I'll also find them completely illogical and warped as I do many of their points of view.

If the answer to an argument is legitimising mass killing civilians, that argument is bullsh*t imo. But fire away.

HAMAS are very much a terrorist organisation and have been recognised as such for decades, even when Israel were propping them up to weaken the Palestinian Authority. What they carried out on October 7th was appalling because they damn well knew what Israel were going to do in the aftermath and they were more than willing to sacrifice ordinary Palestinian lives in the process.

And HAMAS did not take "prisoners of war", they took civilian hostages.

Only a twisted individual would try and frame what they did as something legitimate when the reality is that they set in motion a series of events that have made the lives of Gazans demonstrably much worse than they already were.

Ah really I missed that, I'll take it all back so : )

The Palestinians needs a voice - it cannot be Hamas

This is an oxymoron. The Palestinians voted and it was for Hamas, who are you or anyone else to prohibit it?

Of course you're entitled to your views but Hamas are a terrorist organisation and what they did on Oct 7th was not legitimate. They killed civilians and took hostages - both are War Crimes and abhorrent.

I'm not an expert in the laws of war but it might be possible the taking of POWs was legitimate if they were combatants and they were treated as such in accordance with Geneva Conventions. But keeping soldiers as hostages is a War Crime.

Israel most certainly had (and has) the right to defend itself and maintain its security. As long as that action targets legitimate combatants and their military infrastructure, there can be no argument.

Of course what Israel has done since is disproportionate retaliation that has resulted in the deaths of many tens of thousands of civilians - a War Crime.

There is legitimacy for the unavoidable killing of civilians in pursuit of confirmed military targets - but proportionality is key.

But the latest actions of Israel in withholding aid to Gaza for 11 weeks is totally indiscriminate and affects all inhabitants - by the far the majority being civilians. And a War Crime.

The sum of all these actions by Israel could constitute Genocide per the UN definition. I believe there are committing genocide, as do many others, but it will be the ICJ that provides the de facto judgement.

But absolutely not - what Hamas did on Oct 7th was not legitimate. What Israel has done is not legitimate either.

Neither should be supported in my opinion.

They voted for Hamas in 2006. The proportion of the vote in favour of Hamas was about 40% and a majority. Hamas has not held elections since. That is not democratic. The Palestinians have had no choice for 19 years.

Of course the Palestinians need a voice. Some try and give them a voice but it is futile in the face of a terrorist organisation that refuses to hold elections to give Gazans the opportunity to make a different choice should they wish.

If there were elections and Gazans voted for Hamas again, so be it. At least it's democratic.

I wouldn't agree with people voting terrorists into power but it's their choice. Not mine.

You're going to have to explain that one or retract it.

None of that is true in my opinion and does not reflect the post or the poster at all.

Those attending the drug rave were active IDF or reservist IDF and were on occupied land. 

Any proof for this?

I found this on, admittedly, Wikipedia.

 It was the Israeli edition (pre-festival event) of Universo Paralello, a psychedelic trance festival started 23 years earlier in Bahia, Brazil.

Doesnt sound like a drug rave for IDF reservists to me, unless Brazil has enough IDF people over there to fund a festival? Sounds like a regular festival to me.

They were legitimate targets in a war

Who were? They also killed loads of kids, do you think them legitimate targets? Or are you saying the Hannibal directive only killed kids? Find that v hard to believe, and v convenient for your argument.

Lastly, the festival was within Israel's borders right - not occupied land. I even think Hamas does not dispute Israel's 1967 borders.

They also killed loads of kids

I don't know that and neither do you.

The rest of your post is drivel and I have nothing to add.

Israel need to be stopped for sure and made to live within their own borders. But Destroyed? That's pretty much what they feel about Gaza is it not? Given that most accept Hamas as terrorists, All of Israel certainly does, does that mean Israel should be allowed destroy gaza?

That mindset I'm afraid will only lead to the total destruction of Gaza, more or less what is happening. If the world accepted your stance Gaza and palestine have no chance.

But I thought that no one on here supports hamas? Here it is for all to see and many more posts besides this. Boards has become a place where people can openly support terrorist groups like hamas, across multiple threads. Its really not a good look