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Solar for Beginners [ask your questions here]

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,019 ✭✭✭Soarer


    Can anyone point me in the direction of a smart switch for my immersion so I can heat the hot water during my cheap window? Ideally a Shelly one that integrates into the SigEnergy ecosystem, but that's not a deal breaker really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,806 ✭✭✭g0g


    Probably a question that has been asked, but there are just so many threads I haven't been able to find an answer. Current setup is 20 panels + inverter + battery + changeover switch + zappi. Yesterday we had a power cut for a few hours. I was able to switch the changeover so that the house ran from the (fully charged) battery.

    However, the panels did not produce during the power cut which was annoying as it was a lovely sunny day so effectively we could be completely self-sufficient!

    I called my provider and they explained that some part of the way you're expected to set up a system blocks you being able to produce from panels when grid is down? He said it needs to be set up that way to qualify for the SEAI grant. He also said the setup can be changed in 5 minutes at some point in the future to continue operation when grid is down. Something about by-passing something and swapping the order things are connected.

    I've always struggled a bit with electrics so this one went over my head.

    1. Does what I have described make sense?
    2. Can anyone explain the situation and fix to me as if I were a child?
    3. Does the idea of a workaround raise safety issues?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,119 ✭✭✭DopeTech


    Here’s what Gemini says


    Okay, let's break down why your solar panels didn't work during the power cut and the potential fix, assuming you have a grid-tied solar system with battery backup.
    Think of your home's electricity as a network of roads.

    • The Grid (the main highway): This is the normal electricity supply from your provider. Your house is usually connected to this highway.
    • Solar Panels (your personal power plant): These generate electricity from sunlight. Think of it as your own little power factory.
    • Inverter (the traffic director): The electricity from your solar panels is in a form that most household appliances can't use directly (it's DC, and your house uses AC). The inverter converts this solar electricity into the right "language" (AC) for your home. It also usually synchronizes with the main highway (the grid).
    • Battery (your energy storage unit): This is like a storage tank where you can keep any extra electricity your solar panels produce for later use, like at night or during cloudy days.
    • Changeover Switch (the rerouting tool): This is a manual switch that allows you to disconnect your house from the main highway (the grid) and connect it to your battery during a power cut.
    • Zappi (likely an EV charger): This is a special appliance designed to use your solar power to charge your electric vehicle.
      Why your panels likely didn't produce during the power cut:
      Most grid-tied solar inverters have a built-in safety feature. They are designed to shut down automatically when they detect that the main power grid is down. There are a couple of key reasons for this:
    • Safety for Utility Workers: If your solar panels were still feeding electricity back into the grid while it was down, it could create a dangerous situation for any utility workers who might be working on the power lines, as they wouldn't expect live electricity.
    • Grid Synchronization: Standard grid-tied inverters are designed to synchronize their output with the frequency and voltage of the main power grid. When the grid is down, there's no reference point for them to synchronize with, so they can't safely supply power to your home.
      The SEAI Grant Requirement:
      The SEAI (Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland) grants often have specific requirements for how solar systems are installed. One common requirement is that the system must have anti-islanding protection. "Islanding" is the term used to describe a situation where a local power source (like your solar panels) continues to supply power to a section of the grid that is no longer connected to the main utility. The safety mechanism that shuts down your inverter during a power cut is a form of this anti-islanding protection, which is often a condition for receiving the grant.
      The "Bypass" or "Swapping" Fix:
      What your provider is likely referring to is a different type of inverter or a specific wiring configuration that allows for "off-grid" operation with solar charging during a power outage. This typically involves:
    • A Hybrid Inverter: These inverters are more sophisticated. They can manage the flow of energy between your solar panels, battery, the grid, and your home. Some hybrid inverters have the ability to form their own mini-grid when the main grid is down. They can use the battery as a stable reference to continue operating the solar panels and supplying power to your house.
    • A Specific Wiring Configuration: The way your inverter, battery, and changeover switch are connected is crucial. The current setup likely isolates the solar panels when the changeover switch is flipped to battery power. A different configuration could allow the solar panels to charge the battery and supply the house even when disconnected from the grid.
      The "bypassing" might refer to bypassing the grid-detection mechanism of a standard inverter (though this is generally not recommended for safety and grid compliance). More likely, it refers to a configuration where a hybrid inverter or additional components are used to create an independent power supply for your home during an outage. "Swapping the order things are connected" likely means rewiring the system so that the solar charge controller (which manages charging the battery from the panels, often integrated into a hybrid inverter) can directly supply the battery and the house load that is connected to the changeover switch, even when the grid is absent.
      Safety Issues with the Workaround:
      If implemented correctly by a qualified electrician who understands off-grid and grid-tied systems, a setup that allows solar production during a power cut can be safe. However, there are important safety considerations:
    • Anti-Islanding Protection: The new configuration must still have robust anti-islanding protection to prevent accidental backfeeding to the grid if it were to come back online unexpectedly while your system is operating independently. This is usually handled by the hybrid inverter itself.
    • Proper Wiring and Isolation: The system needs to be wired correctly to ensure that when you switch to battery power, your house is completely isolated from the grid.
    • Overcurrent Protection: All components, including the battery, inverter, and wiring, must have appropriate fuses and circuit breakers to protect against overloads and short circuits.
    • Compliance with Regulations: Any modifications must comply with local electrical codes and any relevant regulations, including those related to grid-tied solar installations.
      In essence:
      Your current system is likely set up primarily for grid-tied operation with battery backup for use when the grid is down, but it doesn't necessarily allow the solar panels to recharge that battery or directly power your home while the grid is down. The change your provider mentioned would involve reconfiguring or upgrading your system (likely the inverter and potentially the wiring) to create a more independent power system that can utilize solar energy even during a grid outage. This needs to be done carefully and by a professional to ensure safety and compliance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 810 ✭✭✭JohnySwan


    You could use one of these

    to switch one of these

    I don't trust any of those smart relays/switches/plugs to control heavy loads. I've seen too many burn out.

    If you want energy monitoring you could use this instead of the Shelly Plus 1

    Get a small IP rated enclosure to house them local to the immersion (no sparky required). You could also fit them directly into your existing DB.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,806 ✭✭✭g0g


    Nice one thanks - should've thought of asking AI! The installer seemed adamant that the 5-minute re-wiring job was safe (assuming done by an electrician!) and would solve the challenge having solar work without grid supply. I'm just curious why it would be so important for the grant to have it the current way if the fix is safe.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭cobham


    I am sure the answer is buried deep in this thread! Could someone tell me how I enter a code on the inverter? Our battery is offline for few mths now ( I forget reason?) but now with other work done on system I would like to get it back working. So I go to 'Advance Settings' but then it is looking for a code…. but no keypad?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,019 ✭✭✭Soarer


    I've no direct experience with that, but usually it hit enter to access the code area, then up and down arrows to scroll through the numbers/alphabet, then left or right arrow to move to next number/letter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,848 ✭✭✭con747


    Which inverter? If Solis the default password is as follows. " Enter the password 0010 (by pressing Down, Down, Up, Enter)

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭cobham


    Sofar Solar



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35 zergetek


    Hi all, how do you keep your solar Inverter cool at the attic? At the moment I have a pedestal fan right at the front of the inverter and the inverter temperature is about 10 Celsius degrees lower when the fan is on between 10am and 9pm. I am looking for a more elegant solution so please share your experience/experiment.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,019 ✭✭✭Soarer


    Does anyone know what the most “powerful” panels are on the Irish market? Not massive commercial yokes. Something within a fairly standard 1800x1100mm dinensions.
    Seems most everyone and their dog wants to supply Jinko 435W.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,806 ✭✭✭g0g


    The highest number I saw on quotes in January was 455W



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,019 ✭✭✭Soarer


    My quote at the minute is for 460W Longi. There's also an option for 455W Aiko from the same installer. I'm wondering if if there are maybe 500W panels for an extra €50 per panel or something that could be gotten? Try futureproof myself as best as possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,159 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Aiko have a 460w, seems to be the highest in a standard size.

    https://midsummer.ie/buy/aikopanels

    530w in commercial sizes made by Longi.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Talk about throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. Yes there is information there but not actually specific to the question. An AI response is about as good as "let me google that for you".

    As you have the changeover switch you have 95% of a fully off grid system.

    1. Does what I have described make sense?
    2. Can anyone explain the situation and fix to me as if I were a child?
      Yes, It does make sense. In Ireland Fireman switches/shunts are used, when these are powered, they keep the PV panels connected to the inverter, When the grid goes down, It disconnects DC from the panels.
      The purpose of this is not for grid isolation, or anti Islanding - that is covered by the inverter. It is in the scenario there is a fire and the Fire Brigade pull the esb main fuse. At this point there will be no live DC or AC cables in the house.

      This is usually powered from the AC isolator of the Inverter - so when you operate the changeover, you likely turn off the MCB/RCBO for the solar inverter too?

    This also cuts the power to the fireman switch, Disconnecting the panels.

    The workaround, is taking a separate supply to the fireman switch or changing where its powered. In this scenario it will still work as intended. If running off grid, pulling the fuse wont do anything anyway for the cables in the house so that point is moot.

    For the SEAI grant you cant do that. That is their rules. Once grant is paid, you can do whatever you want within the Current wiring regulations.



    1. Does the idea of a workaround raise safety issues?

      Id say no, as its no more "unsafe" as running from a generator or changeover switch


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,852 ✭✭✭50HX


    If you want to run the house off of PV generation when the main grid is down do you not need to split the fuse board as well?



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56 ✭✭Sligobuck




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,801 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    0715 for the advanced settings I think. Use the up/down buttons to change the numbers, and press OK to move to the next one.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭hammerdub


    OK, not very technically minded, had 20 panels installed recently, 8 front and 2 sets of 6 each out back.

    Huawei inverter, can I get information of what each panel produces and if so where do I look.

    Thanks in advance, if anyone can help.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 829 ✭✭✭CivilEx


    As part of the prep for your SEAI grant approval, your installer should have given you a link to the operation and maintenance (O&M) manuals, start up / shut down for your new system. You should also have been given data sheets for the panels along with information on what each produces?

    I have a Huawei inverter also - happy to help on a specific query if I can.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    You'll not be able to find out what each panel produces.

    You should be able to find the total output in the app

    You might be able to see a breakdown of what each string can do it though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭mossie


    I'm not sure if this is relevant here but I will try.

    I got solar installed last November and I am very happy with it. I am getting an EV in July and I am wondering about how I fit charging the EV and charging my house batteries into my EV rate window from 2am - 6am. I know I won't be charging the car every day but I am unsure of the best strategy to take. Any advice would be most welcome, thanks.

    House batteries 10kw

    Car 65kw



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 829 ✭✭✭CivilEx


    Real world example - the max charge rate on my solar system is 2.5kW (5kWh battery) and the max on my Zappi is 7.1kW. If both are running at the same time along with some background house usage (dishwasher) during the EV charging window at night, I will still be below the allowed max import. Essentially, I charge both the battery and the EV at night during the EV rate window and I've never run into an issue with something tripping out.

    My advice is simply to get an SEAI grant approved EV charger, set the car the charge for the 4 hours, alongside your house battery and forget about it after that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭mossie


    Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure if i would run into issues or not. Getting a Zappi charger also.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭homewardbound11


    I’m looking at ground mount and have a question if anyone can help me.

    With ground mound . How deep do the cables need to be that run from the panels back to the house/ battery/ inverter ,

    The plan is to have them in esb ducting and I’m contemplating a trencher to dig the channels if it’s not too deep . If not then a mini digger .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 829 ✭✭✭CivilEx


    The company who put my ground mount system in last year dug a trench about 600-700 deep based on photos I took at the time for my own records. I think they were aiming for about 600mm (2 feet) cover to the cables / ducting once backfilled again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,852 ✭✭✭50HX




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,825 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    I had 570w panels installed in March. Futura Sun.



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