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Donald Trump the Megathread part II - Mod Warning added to OP 10/1/26

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭CPTM


    I'm not arguing the points but just wondering do you think that by discussing all this you're giving him exactly what it wants? Suddenly people are talking about this thing that makes no sense whatsoever. It just feels like people are playing right into his hands and aren't talking about what is actually going on or why he's doing it in this moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,275 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    The issue here is not SA. Just as it wasn't Zelensky and his suits.

    It's the crash, boorish, & bullying behaviour of Trump and his cabinet that is the issue.

    If SA has a problem by all means bring it up with the SA delegation but no need for this type of ambush and complete lack of respect.

    And you can see from Trumps reaction to the question about the plane that he hates having people question him or bring up things he doesn't like yet he continues to use it himself.

    It is beneath the office of POTUS that he, apparently the world's greatest deal maker, has no other means than a TV ambush.

    And you have people of here arguing semantics and splitting hairs when Trump nevers cares about either and os well known for his lack of real knowledge or attention to detail.

    This is the man that apparently got confused over two different numbers in relation to Bidens cancer but we are supposed to believe he has indepth knowledge of SA politics and it's death rates?

    His racism is there in plain sight, he is literally screaming it on live TV, but he gets a pass.

    The SA president should have simply retorted that there are good people on both sides.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,417 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Absolutely no goal post moving from me and the whataboutery is all you and other posters.

    Trump did not say there was a genocide of white farmers in SA. You and other posters believe he implied it. Which is your perogative.

    But the discussion at hand is the insistence by you and other posters that he explicitly stated it.

    This has yet to be shown. You keep posting the implied version which is open to interpretation regardless of how much you demand it to becategorically stared.

    What was categorically stated by Trump was that he believes there's indiscriminate killing of white farmers and that Ramaphosas government are doing little to nothing about it.

    I don't know if that's true or not. But let's debate that. What was actually said. Not whataboutery and pearl clutching.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,365 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    What a weird **** hill to die on. Whether he said the word ‘genocide’ yesterday in the oval office or not, he has said it about South Africa in the last couple of weeks and it’s clearly what he was implying yesterday. Are you really that naïve to think he wasn’t? Google ‘Trump genocide South Africa’ and have a look through the results.
    As for the other nonsense about “indiscriminate killing of white farmers”, same question again.
    26,000+ murders in SA in 2024. 44 of those were linked to farming communities. 8 were farmers. So that means 36 of them were farm workers (which you can be 99.9% sure were black). Why isn’t dozy Don highlighting the indiscriminate killing of black farm workers in South Africa? He wouldn’t be a lying racist would he?


    https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-makes-false-claims-white-genocide-south-africa-during-ramaphosa-meeting-2025-05-21/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,987 ✭✭✭yagan


    The breaking up of ascendency estates started after Gladstones land reform act of 1881 and tenant farmers got grants to buy out the landlords, many of whom were surviving on rents as beef prices were depressed since the arrival of refrigerated shipping allowed Argentine beef flood Europe.

    The economic wars of the 1930s was to do with ground rents to non domicile landlords.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,275 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    No, that is not the discussion at hand. It is the discussion you want to have because there is no defence of his actual behaviour. So you deflect on whether a single word was used, exactly what context it was used. As if Trump has ever bothered with facts on sticking to what people say or do.

    Turns out Michael Martin did a fantastic job when he met Trump, he didn't end up getting completely abused and humiliated by a raving nut case. POTUS has one of the biggest intelligence gathering agencies in the world reporting directly to him, and yet his 'evidence' was printouts of newspaper articles and a video which no one has a clue what it actually was.

    The SA Delegation repeatedly told him that he was incorrect, but he wasn't interested. Just like with Zelensky. The point is to make Trump look like a strong man, he is in charge, yet he crumbles in the face of anyone whi stands up to him. Putin, Carney, Xi.

    When a reporter asked Trump what he thinks should be done to deal with this apparent genocide, his response? "I don't know". He doesn't care. He just wants to act tough and be a bully.

    He is a bully who is destroying the soft power of the POTUS, and the US is rapidly losing any semblance of being a stable or productive partner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,175 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    This is what people are defending, the most powerful man in the world obsessed with simpering over the worst people on the planet:

    I just don't get it.

    The man has no idea how anything works, why it matters, the reasons it was built in the first place or ways to make it better. He has the mentality of a locust, destroy anything and everything just to either suck the value out of it or out of pure hate.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭randd1


    "Mr President, your poll numbers are still above 10000% and you're the greatest and most popular man that ever lived. But some people are complaining a bit. How will we make you even more popular?"

    "Lets do some racist dog-whistling. That always works. Get me a black leader in the Oval Office, I'll take it form there."

    Sadly, in modern America, this works.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 11,135 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    That is not what I'm talking about, but nice try. I'm talking about the burning, looting etc… that happend all around the country after the treaty was signed. The stuff we'd prefer not to discuss or remember. Moore Hall being a classic example.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,172 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    It's "collusion" argument,

    or the "he wasn't found "guilty" of sexual assault,

    or "it wasn't rape, it was sexual assault".

    Dancing on the head of a pin, instead of discussing matters with context.

    Always excusing, always twisting away from proper discussion.

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭dogbert27


    Take it to another thread then to have that conversation because you're doing exactly what the Trump admin does, distraction.

    What has been discussed here for the last 24 hours is exactly what the administration wants to happen.

    Everyone distracted again by crazy Trump sxxt that means fxxk all in the greater context to his bill failing to get support, wall street closing with the market down again because of his bill, price increases kicking in now with the tarrifs taking affect, still flouting the law with deportations, how Trump is personally raking in millions with private meet the president dinners for the 220 people who bought his fxxkin meme coin and on and on and on.

    The media need to stop feeding of the entertainment of the off the wall sxxt this administration is doing to distract them and keep focused on the corruption of the entire administration.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,754 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It's just a tactic deployed to defend Trump when you can't defend him any other way. It's not done out of some great reverence for the specific meaning of words, because it's not deployed to defend those with different political viewpoints.

    Talk about not being able to see the wood from the trees.

    Anyone paying attention to Trump's conduct over the years can clearly see he was associating genocide and South Africa together - and we're expected to care about what exact words used.
    Eh nope.
    Instead of what Trump is doing and has been doing?

    If racist Nazi trolls like Musk were running South Africa, you can be sure no matter how many black farmers were killed, Trump wouldn't say a word. He's probably come out praising them.
    Just another example of Trump's racism. And he doesn't give two hoots about genocide, would only be too happy to engage in it if it suited his purposes.

    Desperate desperate stuff altogether. I'm sure Trump would be delighted there's people fighting his corner on social media over such technicalities, ignoring his reprehensible conduct.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,594 ✭✭✭blackbox


    I love the way the clever defence industry guys sold this to him. If they had called it "missile defense dome", "protection dome" or the like he would have said it was too expensive - but when it's called "Golden Dome" it must be beautiful and poor Donnie just has to have it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,984 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 734 ✭✭✭PixelCrafter


    You'd have to wonder how the US is ever going to climb back down from all this when he finally leaves office. The standards have been so utterly debased that the whole idea of there being a statesmanlike seriousness being required for high office is just gone. That rubicon has been crossed and it’s reality TV-level nonsense from here on out.

    There's also a very clear illustration that their two-party, full presidential system just doesn't work — a complete clown show can get into power and remain in power without any checks and balances really at all. It's a total mess. Congress isn't pushing back and is completely sewn up by the executive. The court system is either captured or far too slow to respond and it just keeps rolling on and on.

    In most functioning democracies there are circuit breakers like loss of support in parliament, votes of no confidence etc etc - a farce like this trips out. In the US system that just doesn't seem to be the case at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭thereiver


    Trumps beautiful. New bill will decrease medicaid for all reduce money for local services while increasing government debt by trillions of dollars it reduces quality of life for all workers but it reduces tax's for the rich by a billion dollars for the first time in 100 years Moody's has downgraded Americas credit rating interest rates will rise walmart has said tariffs will increase the cost of goods in stores the dollar is losing its value as the world's reserve currency investors are switching to Bitcoin or buying gold instead of buying us government bonds Trump is saying he won't cut medicaid while passing a bill that cuts medicaid doge will not save a penny as it has sacked it's workers who collect money from billionaires. There are supposed to grants for rebuilding but they are not being paid out to help rebuild los Angeles and other citys where 1000,s of homes have burned down . Fema is not doing the work it should as it has had workers laid off

    Doge should stand for Destroy our great economy

    Many companies are not hiring due to the impact of tariffs Many tech company's are laying off staff as they can be replaced by AI programs 100s of local rural hospitals may close as they rely mostly on Medicaid to pay staff and they can't negotiate rates with big insurance companies who own hospitals in citys



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,417 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    It's not my hill. It's the hill other posters chose to march up with kermit. He repeatedly made the distinction and people tried to convince him Trump said it verbatim. He did not say it so kermit was right.

    Anyway ill leave it there, semantics only count when they're going one way on boards. And that tends to be left.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,175 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The issue is whether or not the GOP can find a suitable successor for Trump, one that can keep MAGA united. I don't think that such a man (It will have to be a man) exists. There's also the fact that Trump is great at galvanising the opposition meaning that he's going to lose in 2028 if he runs again.

    As for whether or not the system works, that depends on who you ask. Personally, I think it's incredibly successful at protecting and advancing the interests of the country's elite. However, it has had its weaknesses mitigated by presiding over the most powerful economy humanity has ever known. If that stalls for enough Americans, the system is in serious trouble. Doubly so when anyone can look at the sort of welfare systems, annual leave allowances and general standard of living enjoyed by most Europeans these days. Its used to be my dream to move to the US. Now I just look at it as a decadent, depraved third world sh*thole where they don't just celebrate the worst of themselves but actually worship in a Godlike manner. The Bible has a story about this but I'm guessing all he took from it was that gold looks cool and the more the better.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Of course I'm not in the room when those things may happen. I'm likely not in the room when anything the troopers do happens, does that mean my position is pointless? If so, then I can't see how SecDef or the President can do it, they're not even in the same state.

    The reality is that leadership is the act of influencing people. As an organizational leader, I do have the ability to influence beyond my direct reports, it says so in the manual. And if my influence extended only as far as my physical presence, then I would argue I wouldn't be a particularly good leader.

    But I note you still haven't answered the direct question. I'll make it easier for you and expand it a bit. If you were SecArmy for a day, what would be added to the training schedule now the mandatory one-hour-a-year brief is gone, and what would you sacrifice to make room for it? What policy memorandum would you mandate I and my commanders publish and how would it be supported? What regulation or process would you add or change? What effect would this have on Trooper Smith, standing in the third row?

    If the answer doesn't affect troops at the unit level, then my original statement about not losing many minutes from the ramifications of the deletions of DEI initiatives stands.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,358 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    The new obsession with South Africa is likely coming from both Vance and Musk. Vance is heavily connected with Peter Thiel who was raised in SA during apartheid and has always been pretty supportive of that system.

    It says a lot that Trump has not said a word to Putin about genocide and has tacitly approved of it in Palestine. His lecture to the South African president comes across like a teen who just saw something on YouTube.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,552 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    What do you know that I don't on this subject, given our different situations? What is an action, authority, regulation or process you think is missing and required which existed in the military six months ago, but does not exist today, and why do you think it necessary?

    You asked this, and I posted excerpts from the document that you linked you, which answered that question. The army will suffer with retention, with recruiting, and with cohesion. The SecDef is pushing an agenda which is framed by his white supremacist beliefs, that has sought to erase and denigrate women and minority service members. He has fired competent, experienced officers because they weren't white, Christian men. The fact you would argue that this doesn't undermine the military, that it won't have an impact on your formation begars belief.

    You have repeatedly avoided answering the question put to you, in how you think the military has been improved by the erasure of these initiatives. For someone who delights in delving into minutia at every opportunity, it's noticable that you avoid engaging with that. Leaders set the tone, and the one being espoused now tells a huge swathe of the force that they don't matter as much as white men.

    While online training by itself has little value in isolation, the larger effort to emphasise the importance of things like preventing sexual assault or racial discrimination do carry weight. It's why it's no longer appropriate to make sexually explicit comments in the office space or knock back beers at lunch time. These initiatives came about because of widespread issues facing the military. Those issues haven't disappeared, although they are undoubtedly better than they were 20 years ago. To answer your question, were SecDef for a day, there's a laundry list of things I might do. To start with I would probably take a chainsaw to the ranks of the officer corps, and get rid of the multitude of useless chair fillers who exist to lick their own ice cream cone and generate endless PowerPoint presentations in an attempt to justify their existence. That might actually do something to improve lethality.

    I have answered your question, twice now. Feel free to return the favor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,380 ✭✭✭mountain


    in fairness to manicmoran, he is in the very best position to have a view/opinion of the US Armed Forces, I certainly would him at his word



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 37,053 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Greenland has signed a minerals rights deal… with Europe.

    https://www.newsweek.com/greenland-trump-permit-extraction-2075673

    30-year permit for a Danish-French company to mine rocks & minerals which are important to manufacture of aluminium. Clear sign that Greenland would prefer to deal with Europe rather than the US.

    As much as I'd love to see a reporter ask Trump about it, we all know what the answer would be.

    "You're a horrible reporter. So dishonest. You're fake news. You shouldn't even be allowed to be a reporter."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,552 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    He is one person. His experience is not universal, or without its own biases. I am no different.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,987 ✭✭✭yagan


    There's an estate near where I grew up where the landowners evicted his tenants in the 1840s even though they were able to pay rent and replaced their crop work with sheep. There were no tears locally when that house got burned down.

    Won't someone think of the poor parasites!

    Edit to add Westminster approved grants for the cost of transporting starving tenants to Canada, but this landlord took the grant money, evicted his paying tenants and bought sheep instead. Up and down the country many a big house was set ablaze in the war of Independence while other houses weren't, and there was good local reason.

    Post edited by yagan on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭thereiver


    This new bill increases american debt by 4 trillion and reduces tax revenue , eg debt increase of about 8 per cent .it takes 16 per cent of federal tax to pay american debt every year. TRUMP is taking apart the federal government and also reducing tax revenue and increasing the debt burden on middle class and ordinary workers .

    quote

    Debt hawks in the Republican party have been complaining about the Congressional Budget Office’s report that said the bill would add nearly $4 trillion to America’s $36 trillion in debt. That’s not just a number: America needs to pay interest on all that borrowing. This fiscal year alone, America has already spent $684 billion to maintain its debt, amounting to 16% of all federal spending — just on interest.

    But the Treasury is about to fill its coffers again once Congress raises the debt ceiling, allowing the government to start borrowing again. If bond investors demand higher yields, that will make financing America’s debt significantly more expensive, putting at risk future safety net programs — one reason why Republicans are talking about big cuts to Medicaid.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/22/investing/bond-market-selloff

    So the debt burden go,s up while trump cuts medicaid which 75 million working americans use.Even when trump is gone america will be left with a massive debt to pay with less tax revenue and it will be more expensive for people to get any medical care ,This bill is really an attack on middle class and low wage workers . Investors are turning away from investing in america as its led by a reckless government and a president who seems to change his policys every week .Doge is laying off federal workers while american infrastructure needs more investment as the cost of climate change rise,s with more deadly fires and hurricanes / flooding in coastal area,s .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭thereiver


    typical bullshit from Trump he ignores genocide in gaza and mass starvation while showing a video in the white house about a fictional genocide in south africa .White people in south africa are doing well the average white person is much better off financially than most black citizens there .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,098 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    It looks like the medium & low waged in the US had better hold on to the table they're bent over as they are likely to get screwed harder and tighter by Trump and Co with less Medicaid to relieve the sensation. There's only one way to get over the pain, remove the cause.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Those excerpts are basically policy statements and broad approaches, some of which are put into practice by regulation or law and directly affect the operations of units in the Army (If they are not put into practice by regulation or written instruction, they don't happen at the unit level). I've been asking you for the actual effect of the change on Joe. You've still not answered it, you've answered a different question which is important to you, but not what I've asked.

    I am, by regulation, required to conduct anonymous (though a centralised Army system) command climate surveys to, as the DEI document put it, "gain feedback on the success of current programs and initiatives while simultaneously providing Soldiers and DA Civilians a mechanism to identify potential issues" (amongst other methods). I am, by regulation, required "to ensure professional development opportunities extend across the Army." And so on. Not only do those regulations remain in force, they pre-date anyone talking about DEI because they affect more than just DEI things despite being a component of a DEI policy. Though an alarming number of soldiers report seeing examples of racism or sexual harassment, it's to be noted that those figures are substantially lower than the percentages reporting it in the national population from which the military is drawn. The needle is already moving in the right direction.

    However, to answer your direct question. There haven't been many improvements as a result. We get an hour back in our year. Presumably a bunch of personnel, contractors and dollars are no longer doing DEI things and are now doing other things. Maybe they moved across the hallway to the SHARP or EEO offices. That's about it. Hardly a monumental effect.

    But the thing about dog whistles, as you termed it, is that they tend to make much ado about nothing. There haven't been many detrimental effects as a result either. We have not lost any regulations, unit events, programs of instruction (barring that one hour which we have both agreed is fairly useless), nor has unequal, discriminatory, or even discomforting behaviour suddenly become permitted, even by loophole. Leaders are still tasked and equipped to keep their organisations as effective as possible, regardless of if the issue is called "DEI" or not the effects are still the same and must be addressed. We lost a good few man-hours as suddenly everyone was scrambling to review publications and programs of instruction for DEI-related material, but even that wasn't a total loss as it was the first time in years that the military was mandated to look at everything, and it turned out they found a bunch of stuff entirely unrelated to DEI which was out-dated or contradictory.

    The one part of that policy document which I think did have merit in addition to what we are doing anyway (and which I've already ackowledged) is the part about outreach and recruitment, which itself doesn't affect what happens in the unit since, by that point, they have already been reached and recruited (and it seems to be working. Whites are under-represented in the military. Women form thrice the ratio of soldiers in the US than in Ireland). However, I posit that a similar effect of making the military appealing can be achieved by walking the walk and having a culture where the only things which are relevant are the rank on the chest and the capability of the person wearing it. That reputation would achieve even better results than outreach.

    I have no problem with your chainsaw idea, though I don't see how it affects DEI (unless the person cut is the one making the DEI powerpoints), but in fairness, Hegseth apparently doesn't have a problem with it either.

    https://apnews.com/article/army-program-personnel-cuts-mergers-98c61ed96953d84625b597ef4fc1ad40

    image.png

    https://apnews.com/article/pentagon-generals-admirals-cuts-b751b428db23e5da682eed5cfd3c44be

    image.png


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,561 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Ok pal, ignore the quote I posted if you want. This is just a long winded deflection on your part, but Trump supporters are like that.



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