Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

Theres only way to stop Putin killing, both Ukrainians and Russians, and thats to defeat him in Ukraine, or Russian society collapses. Giving him anything now, just to stop the killing is a false premise.Any peace deal now will only be temporary at best, to suit Putin. Then when he's good and ready, he will restart the war. He cannot afford peace, his own very survival literally depends on war.

Not relevant to my comment.

I'm not quite sure who's comparing Churchill to Trump? If your post was referring to mine, I simply highlighted the risk of indulging tyrants with negotiations and the fact that sometimes history shows that forceful resistance is the best option for saving lives and protecting personal freedoms and the democratic will of a nation. To mock Biden for having stood up to Putin, as was being done by contrasting his actions with those of Trump, who has done nothing but be led around by the nose by Putin, is ridiculous.

You almost make it sound like the US can't wait to give back their military bases and allow the rest of the world develop its own arms industry. Which we all know they have no intention of doing. They want their ports, their airfields, their land bases, their intelligence bases. You can't have your cake and eat it, as Trump has found out with his ludicrous Tariffs Policy - you can't on the one hand take everything back that you want for yourself, while also demanding that others service your needs and buy your goods. The world order that you've highlighted was essentially built by the US. They've shafted countless nations over the decades, destroyed numerous burgeoning democracies because they preferred the 'other guy'. They prioritised corporate profit over their own indigenous industries. They drove globalisation. They cornered the market in arms manufacturing. They've decided which nations to pick fights with and pulled half the world in with them - from Vietnam, through to Iraq and Afghanistan. They've invented reasons for going to war. That's all of their own making.

Now they want to change the terms of business to suit themselves. And they're perfectly entitled to. But along with demanding the Europeans take defence more seriously should come acknowledging that the Europeans can leverage what they feel is just from the US. How many military bases do they have around the world? In this new world order they're shaping, why should they get to keep them? When we've seen how they behave to the likes of Denmark and Greenland. And all this military gear they insist we buy from the market they've cornered - they also want to dictate how that is used years later. So they want the Europeans/ Australians/ Canadians to stand up for themselves - but just so long as they get permission from the US to use US manufactured hardware they've already paid for?

This is largely about Trump and his untrustworthy regime, but the US also needs to think carefully about what new world order it's in the process of creating and whether it's wise to shaft its allies. They made a mess of the last world order, would you trust them with creating the next one?

This argument will never be resolved - for every blot on the US' copybook you can point out a similar one for the Europeans, British, Chinese, Japanese, Indians etc. Its a pointless tit-for-tat exercise and the discussion about global security is for another thread - what is relevant here is how the US are behaving in the context of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

I'm not implying anything like that; I'm clearly saying the USA isn't willing to finance a war to such a degree as to drive Putin back to pre 2014 or 2022 borders.

USA has identified China as its major adversary both economically and militarily. China having closer ties with Russia in bad for the USA; the cards have flipped since the end of the cold war and the USA doesn't want to be the odd man out in the China/Russia/USA relations.

The biggest threat to China's economy in the event of an amphibious invasion of Taiwan is a prolonged battle and a threat to their shipping traffic in particular the import of energy. China is very dependent on oil and gas importation. A Russian back up plan in terms of pipeline you can be sure is on the cards. Learning from the Russians in terms of drone warfare in Ukraine you can bet is top of the list of what China wants to.

Europe build a canal in Central America while its increased gas importation from Russia between 2023 and 2024 by 18%; play fantasy scenarios with somebody else.

Safe some money? The combined cost of Iraq and Afghanistan is north of 4000 billion. The Heritage foundation and the rest of the right wing think tanks don't want an island they want strategic spending on whom they perceive as their primary threat. Ukraine just doesn't matter enough to your average American especially your average republican

https://www.pewresearch.org/2025/04/17/how-americans-view-the-russia-ukraine-war/

Europe can't chase net zero, shut down nuclear plants, reduce heavy industrial output and have a serious defence/military.

Whinging about USA/Trump and the rest of it is just avoiding looking at the position EU has left itself in; hoping Putin will stop will partly funding him.

Trump is only interested in his own legacy and appearing to be all-powerful on the world stage. He couldn't care less about Ukraine so long as he can point at something he can call an acheievement. He does not have the gravitas, motivation or understanding to think long term or for the benefit of others. Just short term gains and soundbites that keep him in the news 24/7.

I can't make up my mind whether Trump is impossibly naive, vain and narcissistic or a Russian puppet. Or both.

Ukraine are engaging in the process that doesn't mean they believe that Putin is remotely serious about peace. The sole reason they're engaging in the process is because they know Trump will likely outright side with Putin if they don't and he's been seriously close to doing so since he entered office. This includes him implying it was Ukraine's fault that they were invaded, refusing to supply intelligence to Ukraine and choosing to bully Zelensky during a diplomatic visit…

So nope, it's not an example of him engaging in successful diplomacy. It amounts to bullying his allies.

"really sends we are ready for war message"

putin and his fan boys seem to like the idea that they are in a great war against the "west" but in reality they are the only ones who want a stupid war of conquest and this is what they have achieved so far in Ukraine since trying to destroy their weaker neighbour which to me does not really send a message that they are ready for war.

Losses like this clearly show to start a direct war with the EU or NATO would be suicidal for the russian federation.

Kasparov right on the button as usual

But that's a different conversation?? The discussion started about Trump's approach to the war (someone praising him for negotiating) versus Biden's (back the Ukrainian's with military aid to prevent a Russian cakewalk to Kiev). What you're discussing is something much broader (the EU's approach to defence). I completely agree with you on the latter (and I've said as much countless times on this thread over the past few years), but I don't see how it's (in a meaningful way) relevant to the former. Putin does not negotiate in good faith. Putin has no intention of engaging in bona fide peace negotiations. Indulging in the fantasy of negotiating for peace with Putin while at the same time holding back meaningful military aid (including by way of frustrating efforts of allies to handover US manufactured hardware) is a travesty of a game plan. That's all I have to say about it.

Groundhog day with agent Krasnov:

US President Donald Trump believes that Ukraine is ready for a ceasefire, but he needs time to assess Kyiv's efforts to achieve this goal.

Source: Interfax-Ukraine citing Trump during an event honouring law enforcement agencies in the Oval Office of the White House

Details: When asked by a journalist whether Ukraine is doing enough to achieve peace, Trump said he needed time to draw conclusions

Quote from Trump: "I'd rather tell you in about two weeks from now, because I can't say yes or no.

Look, he's a strong person, Zelenskyy is a strong guy, and he's not the easiest person to deal with.

But I think that he wants to stop, and it's a very bad thing that's happening over there.

I think he wants to stop. But I could answer that question better in two weeks or four weeks from now. I hope the answer is that he wants to get it solved."

After what just happened in Istanbul, Krasnov is straight back to the Kremlin line that Zelensky is the unreasonable intransigent and that this is why the peace efforts are failing. Not to mention we are back to the no sanctions for the Orcs stance.

I'm half expecting there to be another meeting in the whitehouse where someone heckles Zelensky about not wearing a suit and the hillbilly retard starts shouting that he hasn't said thanks yet.

Jeez - Trump's invoking his "two weeks" fall-back clause. That's the end of that plan, then. Quelle surprise.