Does the Le Pen Conviction Finally Prove Democracy is Dead in the West?

When you get back 😎 can you explain what crime David Norris was guilty of, exactly?

Well I'm actually more concerned about the abuse John Hume got for going against the groupthink. If someone is elected, it's objectively anti democratic to make it illegal for the media to broadcast them. No matter how much you dislike them, if they've been elected, their views should not be systematically banned as a matter of course. Wasn't a gardening program interrupted once because a caller was a member of Sinn Fein? 😆

Not to mention that the law was used to prevent the media from reporting organised garda abuse by the Heavy Squad. So yes it was a bad law - and I am no IRA supporter. I've even been accused of being a loyalist on this forum for pointing out that posters who think the IRA gained civil rights for nationalists don't have a clue.

But the relevance here is that the OP is pure hysteria: even if Le Pen were ill-treated by the legal system, which I'm not sure she has been, so have other elected representatives in the past, and democracy has survived.

Oh and by the way, parts of the British government have been involved in plenty of killings of innocent nationalists, and quite possibly were complicit in the Dublin and Monaghan bombs - so shouldn't they be banned too?

We're too far off topic to discuss that here. My point was that it takes more than a single court judgment to kill democracy, and that there have been plenty of ill-judged anti democratic incidents in the past, which democracy has survived.

To remain off-topic though (despite what I just said!), I'm a lot more concerned about the future of democracy in the US - but that's more about what seems to be a level of insider trading going on which nobody in power seems interested in even pointing out, never mind trying to prevent. I think high level financial corruption is a real threat to democracy. Because it justifies - and even forces - corruption at all levels. Those at a lower level think they have no chance if they aren't also corrupt, and so they become so. I've seen that in a number of countries.

There's little doubt that Musk et al. are using inside info on Trump's daily brainfarts to make coin. Threaten sanctions, short stocks, pause sanctions, go long.

Then there's all the completely illegal access DOGE got to federal records.

Making America Grate Again

Who are you speaking of here, and what was she convicted of?

You need to give more than that, the leader, François Bayrou (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Bayrou) stepped down in 2017 because of the discrepencies and was ultimately cleared last year of wrongdoing.

Members of HIS party were convicted of embezzlement, yet no bans were given.

I have googled it, using the detail you supplied. It's not coming up — I'm getting nothing about any female MoDem politician convicted of corruption in office. Just of (male) François Bayrou being acquitted of fraud charges.

So, don't be coy. You referred to a "she" who is allegedly Marine LePen's rival who got caught with her fingers in the till. Name her.

I'm curious as to what you think should happen to a politician caught in criminal activity. It seems you think they should get off scott free. Is that your contention? And how would such treatment be consistent with democratic principles?

As for Lisbon. We voted. About as democratic as you can get. You probably need to do a bit of research on that episode, maybe you were too young to vote at the time, so your knowledge is probably very shallow.

Lol. You're not making a great case for your argument there. Not hat you had one.

we have already won, you lost.

trump is a failure and those outside the maga who voted for him this time see it.

orban is a joke, everyone is laughing at him.

le pen is a convicted criminal and by the time she can run again the far right will be finished.

the last roll of the dice will be 7 times failure farage and he will wreck the uk if (well, probably when TBH) he gets in.

this country is mostly grand, it has it's issues absolutely but they are easily solved and that won't be by people of your failed discredited politics.

Wonder what punishment von der Leyen will get now that she’s lost her case. Democracy eh?

Mod: insult removed!

I hesitate to disagree with you, Perigrinus, but as the President of the Commission, one that has been criticised as being more ceontrailsied as never before, von der Leyen is a central party to the case, even if not specifically mentioned in legal documents. The case concerns her refusal to be transparent about high level deals she was engaged in and the court agree with the challenge from the New York times. Who , it is reported , has written to the heads of government of the 27, asking for her to be sacked.

She's an important figure in the case, but she's not a party to it. The case doesn't deal with any complaint against von der Leyen herself — it's about the failure of the Commission to release correspondence — and people bringing the case haven't asked for any measures or steps to be taken against her and, even if they had, the court would have no power to do that in a case that she is not a party to and in which no allegations against her have been made or investigated. The Commission's loss of the case doesn't mean any finding against von der Leyen herself; it just means the Commission has to justify its failure or refusal to release the correspondence (or, presumably, release it).

I don't know about the NYT writing to the heads of government asking for VdL to be sacked. I don't think they can sack her; she was elected (by the European Council) for a five-year term. SFAIK the only power of removal lies with the Parliament. And, obviously, the court isn't going to comment on that one way or the other.