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Ireland's reliance on Corporation Tax receipts

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Comments

  • #272
    babyducklings1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 283 ✭✭babyducklings1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123307795#Comment_123307795

    What give away budgets, electricity credits were really good and helped working families and everyone but cost of living is high here. But whatever happens hopefully we’ll weather the storm.



  • #273
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,811 ✭✭✭threeball


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123308159#Comment_123308159

    Things aren't going to be nearly as bad as the doomsayers suggest. Trump is wrecking the US economy far faster than any MNC could pivot even if they wanted to. I doubt his tariffs last 6months before he has to rescind them.

    Hopefully it's the kick in the hole our government needs to start our diversification and end our reliance on MNCs. Yes they should be part of our economy but they shouldn't account for the percentage they do. It's like walking into a casino, putting all your money on red, winning and expecting it to keep coming up. It's a crazy strategy.



  • #274
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,235 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123308159#Comment_123308159

    It's not just the one-offs (a ridiculous policy in the first place) which were about €2bn. That budget was nearly €11bn in total. That is over. And it was a mistake that could cost us dearly if/when surplus turns in to massive deficit.



  • #275
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123308259#Comment_123308259

    Hopefully it's the kick in the hole our government needs to start our diversification and end our reliance on MNCs. Yes they should be part of our economy but they shouldn't account for the percentage they do. It's like walking into a casino, putting all your money on red, winning and expecting it to keep coming up. It's a crazy strategy.

    You want us to tell them to go away or something? People keep saying this and it just doesn't make any sense because there is no way to replace them indigenously to anything like the same scale. So either you just want less of them and to have an active policy of discouraging investment in Ireland or you have to accept the status quo.



  • #276
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,811 ✭✭✭threeball


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123308812#Comment_123308812

    There are plenty of opportunities to develop indigenous industries on smaller scale that will be much more robust and longterm for the country. Its not a matter of telling them to go away, thats nonsense. But we don't support local industries to the same level we support foreign ones. Companies come here and have huge money thrown at them to invest or are given premises with long term leases that are paid for.

    I know from having dealt with EI myself and spoken to many Irish entrepreneurs that their experience has not been so positive. Difficult to access, difficult to deal with and often unrealistic expectations on time to get an ROI. Many chose not to go back for further supports and many didn't even get the door opened in the first place. Only the companies with potential to grow quickly (the so called High Potential Start-ups) float their boat and most of their business moves to the US within a year or two anyway.

    You don't put all your eggs in one basket. We did it with property and we've repeated the mistake with FDI.



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  • #277
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123308994#Comment_123308994

    We have indigenous industries and we absolutely support them. I would be curious for an example of free long-term leases being given to foreign companies also, as I struggle to believe that.

    There is obviously going to be a different approach taken between support for established multinationals who are essentially guaranteeing returns vs having to pick which of the multitude of indigenous startups to support, most of whom will fail. Ireland does not lack in indigenous, large companies. However, when they become successful they are as tenuously linked as any FDI. Smurfit Westrock or CRH will move out of Ireland just as readily as Medtronic if it comes to it.



  • #278
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,811 ✭✭✭threeball


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123309026#Comment_123309026

    You don't get it at all. Smurfit and CRH aren't even in my scope of thinking. We have plenty of companies, which would produce anywhere between 30 and 300 jobs and would have no aspirations to move outside their own town given the opportunity never mind to the US. These companies wouldn't need to go to Dublin, Cork or Galway to have the population needed to provide Labour and would keep people in rural Ireland.

    You say we do support these but i know from personal experience and from talking to others that it is not the case at start up phase unless you are what they consider a HPSU.

    The government policy has been to not give proper support to these companies. Instead favouring the big figure FDI who get favourable tax conditions and suck everyone into the orbit of large cities bleeding rural Ireland dry.



  • #279
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123309281#Comment_123309281

    You say we do support these but i know from personal experience and from talking to others that it is not the case at start up phase unless you are what they consider a HPSU.

    90% of them will fail! With or without government intervention, but if they are given too much support they are nothing but a money sink. The support to FDI is guaranteed income. They are incomparable situations.

    I don't even know what you are suggesting the Govt should be doing to aid these companies. Our corporation tax regime and offsetting etc benefits these companies too.



  • #280
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,220 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123308259#Comment_123308259

    Fair points, but where and how do we diversify?

    The economic environment has encouraged all other sectors to grow. Money hasnt been a blocker to growth outside MNCs, so why hasn't it happened.



  • #281
    greenfield21
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    Despite all the noise around U.S. tax reform, it looks increasingly likely that the much-feared changes to the tax code wont be happening, not that it ever had a chance anway with all the swamp creature lining their pockets. If the text doesn't change, then changes to GILTI and FDII won’t materialize in a way that harms Ireland.

    Ireland’s golden goose, American multinationals, can keep laying those tax efficient eggs right here.No gaping hole in corporate tax revenues. It’s business as usual, probably the greatest threat to Irelands whole economic model has been averted as the House will likely flip after mid terms and the window for change is gone.Celebrations will be happening in Government Buildings this week, Ireland's economic prosperity will continue and the status quo holds for years to come. The biggest threat to Ireland averted.

    https://twitter.com/Brad_Setser/status/1921554172807127130


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  • #282
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,220 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123308259#Comment_123308259

    There is nothing stopping non-MNC companies from scaling up and producing more corporation tax revenue here.

    We dont need to lose any MNC revenue to achieve this.

    The question is, where are your new billions coming from?



  • #283
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,235 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123438178#Comment_123438178

    There is nothing Ireland can do to replace the vast tax take from MNCs. Literally nothing. So for those that talk about being "less reliant" on MNCs what they really mean is a permanent and catastrophic decline in the living standards of every person in Ireland. It's an impossible pipe dream.

    The first thing the government needs to do is stop spending the nation's finances like water.

    The spending increases in recent years have been reckless and irresponsible.

    The government needs to start repairing that this year.

    That doesnt mean austerity. It just means no more giveaway budgets and throwing away money like confetti. It means being prudent and sensible with the budget. It means making sure the public understand that we can not go on increasing spending like we have been doing and managing expectations.

    There are signs that the message is getting through to the government as the Dept of Finance has been putting up the distress flares and it looks as though next year's budget will be very different from went before based on media reports.

    If tariffs presist money should be allocated to protect the most strategically valuable and important sectors like Pharma to maintain jobs and skills and income here.



  • #284
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,893 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123308994#Comment_123308994

    What opportunities to develop indigenous industries to the scale that can replace or match the contribution of MNCs? I am not aware of any.



  • #285
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,938 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123438178#Comment_123438178

    Of course there is. The big one is capital but there are other serious obstacles.

    Can you name any of these non-MNCs that could expand but choose not to?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #286
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,220 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123450406#Comment_123450406

    I cannot: Which is exactly my point.

    If we lose the MNC CT, it is not going to be magically replaced by Non-MNC CT revenue.

    If the Non-MNCs could compete with MNCs in terms of CT revenue, the proof of same would already be present in the books of the exchequer.



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