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How did Israel get so much influence? How can this be changed or overcome?

1246

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Its the most scrutinized and politically polarized conflict in my lifetime, maybe they should use their influence in the media to tone down the coverage.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,456 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Maybe they should let the international press into Gaza.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,061 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    What did you think they've been doing?

    They forced the BBC to take down a documentary recently because they said one of the children in it was the son of a Hamas official.

    It's almost impossible to see the film "No Other Land" about Israeli settlers in Palestine which one an Oscar this year because so few distributors will take it on. Why do you think that is?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Israel doesn't have so much influence. Israel has been criticised by Germany and the European Commission. Spain and Canada have halted arms exports to Israel. The UK has suspended some of the licences for exports to Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,824 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Israel have the implicit backing of pretty much every single US president in modern history and I’d safely say, in the future that won’t change.

    The only President that called them out was Obama… and he received a tonne of flack both internationally and domestically… he’s in fact still calling them out.

    Now the Dutch have called for a review of the EU / Israeli trade deal…. Which I’m willing to bet will be just shoved onto someone’s ‘to do’ list and never actually happen.

    There has been a growing warmth within Israel for them joining the EU. Even though current rules make it impossible as Israel is geographically 100% an Asian country…but there is a growing consensus amongst the more ghoulish elements of the EU that non European countries should be permitted ……



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,788 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    It is thought that the UK only stopped supplying certain armaments to Israel as they could potentially be linked to war crimes in the future.

    And they only stopped supplying a small fraction of stuff. They are still fundamentally supplying close to what they always did.

    Who cares about genocide when theres money to be made.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,061 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    It's a bit ironic that I have to point out the falsehoods of your post with a moniker such as what you have.

    The UK suspending licenses for exports to Israel is largely BS. This was evidenced as recently as this past week by a number of MP's led by a Labour backbencher who continually holds her party to account for their role in the genocide being enacted on the Palestinian people.

    image.png

    The key phrase in the above letter is the following.

    "The public deserves to know the full scale of the UK's complicity in crimes against humanity"

    Germany has been running interference for Israel since the conflict started with very disturbing clampdowns on free speech designed specifically to quell support for the Palestinians.

    Link

    The German state Saxony-Anhalt introduced a requirement for people to declare that “Israel has a right to exist” as a requirement for obtaining citizenship. In November, Germany passed the “never again is now” resolution, which calls on the government to subject arts and science funding applications to an “antisemitic narrative” test.  

    This, despite being widely criticised by Jewish intellectuals and Israeli human rights organisations, due to how it undermines human rights standards, potentially harming Jewish people and Israelis who openly criticise Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. Amnesty International’s research has identified a worrying pattern across Europe where public assemblies organised to express solidarity with Palestinian people have been banned or disproportionately restricted.  

    In her August 2024 report on global threats to freedom of expression, the UN Special Rapporteur Irene Khan documented how the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s “working definition” of antisemitism is inconsistent with international human rights law and undermines the fight against antisemitism. Khan argues that in Europe as well as globally, the definition has been used to restrict criticism of Israeli government policies and actions, and stifle growing calls for an end to the violations Israel is committing against Palestinians. The ability to criticise the actions of a state must always be protected.

    And in the same way as with Germany, criticism from the EU about Israel up until recently does not absolve them for the clear support which they offered for so long. A point made in a clear fashion by the excellent Francesca Albanese.

    Link

    In a wide-ranging exclusive interview with The Intercept, U.N. special rapporteur for the occupied Palestinian territories Francesca Albanese, called for top European Union officials — including European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen — to face charges of complicity in war crimes over their support for Israel during its 18-month assault on Gaza.

    It is partly because of these facts that led me to creating this thread. In the UK, in Germany, in Europe (and beyond) public opinion is largely against the actions of Israel, and yet the leaders in these countries continue to go out of their way to ensure that they can continue to support Israel. Why is that?

    History is going to judge the key people with respect to this very very harshly. Ignorance should never be an excuse for such organisations with their own military and intelligence services and there is no ambiguity about the scale of destruction Israel has inflicted on Gaza.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,184 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    It is disappointing how many people in Ireland slag off Americans. If Ireland actually used it's Irish American diaspora to it's advantage (like Israel does) it would be a much better place.

    The Jews don't run the world.

    Untitled Image


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,228 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    What would you suggest we do with all that backing? Attack Scotland?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,855 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    No, it's the opposite. America's government is unrepresentative, often oppressive and incredibly anti-democratic. That's not just the current administration, that's the system. Then there's the servile hypocrisy that masses of Americans love to engage in.

    Dumping some image doesn't change this. If this is even accurate which I doubt, why do you think this is an advantage. Elites do their damndest to avoid taxes. They're by far the least patriotic demographic. These people couldn't care less about Ireland.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,061 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    That's a bizarre post, I'm struggling to understand your rational or what exactly is the point you are trying to make.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,776 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I think it's "something, something, the Jews don't run the world".

    Despite the fact that nobody on the thread has even said that.

    The usual strawman BS.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,442 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Yes it would be much better off like positive GDP or big budget surplus or near top of every index worldwide for things like freedom, access to education, health care...oh wait.

    We definitely need to be more like the US or Israel and put a far right fascist government in place who are above the law, that will make Ireland Great Again!!

    Btw none of those people are Irish..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,370 ✭✭✭trashcan


    Any evidence that Irish people in general believe any of that ? Or are you just trying to feed the “we’re all so anti Semitic” narrative ? Born and bred and living in Ireland I’ve never heard any of those points. I do know that many American Jews are solidly against what Israel are doing. Some of the best voices online for example speaking out are Jewish, listen to people like Sam Seder, Matt Lieb, Daniel and Aaron Mate, Katie Harper etc. Norman Finkelstein too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭con___manx1


    THere are a number of Jews in the senate and Congress in the USA.

    I



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,684 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Naomi Klein would also be a pretty substantial Jewish voice that's opposed to Israel's actions. I have a Jewish friend from Holland who frequently ends up finding herself far more in line with the Irish sentiment on Palestine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭political analyst


    What Zarah Sultana and Amnesty and Human Rights Watch say is not proof.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭Bogey Lowenstein
    That must be Nigel with the brie...


    The Israel Lobby is a good book on the subject.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/224127.The_Israel_Lobby_and_U_S_Foreign_Policy?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=UOMOuQfjtK&rank=1

    Released nearly 20 years ago but it still shows exactly how we have ended up where we have.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,061 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Are you saying that what they are claiming is false? On what basis are you making such a claim?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Israel has no influence without America. If the US becomes more isolation and less willing to send money Israels way then they will have no influence beyond being a regional player.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,855 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Not going to happen. Trump's going to make sure the handouts keep flowing.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,855 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,977 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    To be honest it's like the post going on about Irish people's supposed lack of understanding of this conflict because we have apparently never met a Jew .

    This discussion is not about Jews .It is about the state of Israel and it's extensive influence worldwide and how that influence is allowing them to carryon on a fashion that would be criticized and sanctioned if it was any other state . As you and others have stated but those strawmen keep coming .

    Lack of understanding or deliberate derailing ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,667 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    That was a reply to a post that was since deleted by the poster who said those things



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,667 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Again, I wasn't saying that, I replied to a specific post that was talking about bar mitzvahs and jews all having piles of money



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,977 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Ok. In reply to a stereotype then , fair enough .

    Didn't see that hence my comment. See now above it was deleted .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    People are naive to think that the OP's question can be answered in the space of a post or even an entire thread, when volumes and volumes of books have been written on the topic. One example by Jack Bernstein (aptly named: Life of an American Jew in Racist Marxist Israel) who moved to newly founded Israel in 1948 and returned to the US in disgust at how the native jewish populace (Sephardic Jews) were being treated by the Israelis. He claimed the newcomers were a faction of Marxist communists determined to displace the local Christian, Muslim, Arab populace. Turning on the news is a perfect illustration of this sentiment 70 years on



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,061 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I started the thread hoping to have a discussion on the topic, I'm not naïve enough to imagine there is a simple concise answer. As you said, many many people have attempted to answer it before. But still, the discussion is interesting and I am particularly interested in the thought process around those who feel Israel's influence and support is justified and warranted.

    Yesterday, it appeared in British media a story that the UK Government is considering a more formal trade deal with Israel. This is astounding to me, that this would be broached at this point in time. Western society mostly reacted to Russia's invasion of Ukraine with the introduction of widespread sanctions, here, as Israel continues to target and kill Palestinians, someone has decided now is a good time to consider strengthening ties with them.

    Who is pushing this idea? I know Israel have lobby groups in the UK but I understood that they were not as influential as AIPAC in the US but maybe this isn't the case and they are powerful enough to have this even suggested as being appropriate.

    image.png

    Link (Paywalled)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭political analyst


    They're the accusers. The onus is on those who make an accusation to prove it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,061 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Hence them asking Lammy to come in to the House of Commons and clarifying exactly what it is is happening.

    Do you think 40 odd MP's are in the habit of putting their name to a letter calling out the UK Foreign Secretary for not being fully transparent about what is happening? Bear in mind, many of the signatories on the letter are from the same party as the minister.



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