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Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Read OP for mod warnings before posting*

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Comments

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,681 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Denmark process claims quicker. That’s really it.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,886 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Australia has been taking measures since last year to restrict immigration:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-12-13/australian-immigration-falls-for-first-time-in-two-years

    Not stop it. Sounds sensible, but still controversial to suggest this in Ireland.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,681 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I’ve no idea what this ban stuff is about FYI.

    But here is the actual process.

    https://www.nyidanmark.dk/de-DE/You-want-to-apply/Asyl/Voksen-asylansøger


    it’s almost identical to the Irish one, but faster.


    I quote the first paragraph


    Any foreign national in Denmark can submit an application for asylum. You can apply for asylum regardless of whether you entered Denmark illegally or have a residence permit or visa.


    So how is this different than Ireland? A load of sensationalist headlines don’t make it different. The implementation is different, not the policy. I am all for Ireland changing how we implement the laws we have.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭prunudo


    A big problem with the Irish system is that there are open border ngo's and solicitors making a fortune out of dragging out the process. They are actively encouraging the asylum seekers to exhaust every avenue and purposely holding up the deportation times.

    Until we break the notion that Ireland is a soft touch with lax rules, nothing will change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,205 ✭✭✭Damien360


    I don’t know the actual answer so I’ll ask. Do we give free legal aid to everyone, even non citizens all the way to the high courts ? Solicitors and barristers will get paid somehow but where is the money tree for non criminal cases.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,205 ✭✭✭Damien360


    to answer my own question, it appears we do not, so begs a question, how are those fighting deportation paying for level costs in high courts?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Honestly don't know where the money comes from but like everything with Ipas, its all smoke and mirrors, trying to cover the true costs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Glenomra


    So we make a big deal, and generate huge publicity in the process, of deporting tens of Georgians, while we host, at astronomical cost, almost 100,000 of their neighbours from Ukraine. Silly games imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,649 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    If you are unable to see the difference between the two countries I don’t think anyone can help you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Whats your point?, house all Georgians who arrive?. Theres no war in Georgia, there is one in Ukraine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,649 ✭✭✭downthemiddle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭baldbear


    It's a PR game and Fianna Fail are doing well at it since elected. If all these Ukrainians apply for Irish citizenship then surely they will be staying forever and end up competing for housing both social and non social .

    My cousin has a old family house in the midlands. Can rent for approx. €1500 easy. But instead have gone the Ukrainian route of the tax free money. I'm guessing there's some cash also been thrown in there. Housing is a disaster for everyone in these scenarios. I think this tax free rentals should be offered to all nationalities and not just Ukrainian.

    Mod Edit: Warned for ignoring mod instructions regarding anecdotes

    Post edited by Necro on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,397 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    @Brian? how many times do you need to be educated on the Danish model before you take it on board?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,556 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    If circumstances in any particular country warrant it, yes?… is that not the whole point of the visas?

    I am not entirely sure what the point you are trying to make is? What is it you think they are owed?

    Post edited by twinytwo on


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,681 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Once. I read through the Danish government website. It was all pretty clear.

    Maybe you should ignore sensationalist headlines and do the same. See my reply above. It really helps if we’re all informed to the same level, so I hope you do read and understand it.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,681 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    A bigger problem with the Irish system is decades of under resourcing. We are still catching up.

    Until we can process claims in a reasonably short timeframe, we will have a problem on where to house claimants.

    I blame the Irish government entirely on this mess. Yet the electorate gives them another chance every time.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,004 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    I have to wonder when people don't feel immigration has been too high, what evidence would you need?

    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cpp1/censusofpopulation2022profile1-populationdistributionandmovements/placeofbirth/

    20% of the population at the last census born abroad, a massive number, and way up from the 1990s. Massive housing crisis, people sleeping on the streets. Lack of school places in nearly every major town.

    Yet some people won't accept immigration is too high, brushing off very compelling evidence to the contrary. When people won't accept the obvious it's hard to believe they are not ideologically motivated.

    A question for these people who don't currently see the problem; is there any level at which there is too much immigration? 30% foreign born, maybe 50%, 75%? How scarce should houses be?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    However remember they are talking about two different things. The 80% does not refer to the numbers rejected but rather the number believed to be economic migrants rather than genuine refugees.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79 ✭✭Thorny Queen


    I am so glad to see a minister who is finally cracking the whip on this immigration shambles. You can't crack that whip hard enough in my eyes.

    When I see the absolute social mess my local regional town has become and this is now being spread to every other town and village in my beautiful county, we have hit rock bottom.

    Houses in my local town are now selling for €500k...what!

    People who are coming here laughing at us because we roll out the Social Welfare Red Carpet to them at the expense of native people.

    Who supports this, get a grip.

    Mod Edit: Warned for breaching mod instruction regarding anecdotes

    Post edited by Necro on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭prunudo


    While its good to see, 71 people in 4 months isn't anything to be getting excited about. I'm also curious about it being Georgians both times. We need flights to far more countries than just Georgia.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,511 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It not my idea, it is yours.

    If Oz start the mass cancellation of Visas and deportations then countries will reciprocate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,556 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    I will have to assume you didnt actually read what i posted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭ericzeking


    100k sounds like a massive number of Irish born people to be in Australia, given how great we are told everything is here with the old GDP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Butson




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,382 ✭✭✭✭Seathrun66


    How is Denmark different, other than processing claims quicker? You keep mentioning the nation yet seem unable to clarify any other disparity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,382 ✭✭✭✭Seathrun66


    False information on the last Census. Again. The second time in two days. Non-Irish born in the 2022 Census accounted for 12% of the population. Where did you get the 20% figure, certainly not from the CSO?

    That 12% also includes those children born abroad to Irish parents, my first-born being one of those alongside many others. Numbers not available as far as I'm aware.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,009 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    That is just your opinion.

    There is no evidence for that . If 65% are rejected 35% are accepted as genuine and given asylum

    Not " oh some might still be economic migrants " ..that's just nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭TokTik


    The Danes brought in a “jewellery law” to seize assets from asylum seekers to help pay for their food and accommodation. This place would have a meltdown if this was even suggested here.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/26/danish-parliament-approves-plan-to-seize-assets-from-refugees



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,556 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    It would appear it is you who is incorrect (twice), or at best half right, depending on the context of your argument.

    12% accounts for the population usually resident and present in the state with non Irish citizenship.

    20% is the population usually resident and present in the state but not born here.

    And yes, all available on the CSO: https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cpsr/censusofpopulation2022-summaryresults/migrationanddiversity/

    I would expect if anyone is going to make claims about what is or is not in the census, they would have at least reviewed it in its entirety. (A quick review of the raw data from the census show these figures to be correct.)

    Love the confidence though 😉



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,236 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    So the Soc Dems think the new system they are bringing in is too harsh.

    Not half harsh enough I say.

    I want to see them put in detention centres.



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