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Why do people drive unnecessarily large cars?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    Desperately sorry to hear that. Sorry for your loss.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    Disgusting response to be honest. The difference in "need" does not make anything less tragic. Accidents happen. I'm sure I could google and find an example of someone killing someone with a bike. But I am not a ghoul.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,761 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Ezeoul




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Ghoulish is a good way to describe it. Its quite sick, in my opinion.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    What a ridiculous study. That would assume all aspects of the collision were consistent. There is no way they can conclusively say that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,377 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Can you then propose a counter study which you have undertaken to prove the findings of this study are inconclusive and therefore invalid?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    Sadly no. There is no possible way that they can conclude their percentage increase of fatalities is valid unless they expect all collisions to have happened at the exact same circumstances, the exact same speed and the exact same person driving the vehicle with the exact same response.

    It is a nonsense, but unfortunately, and somewhat fortunately, I do not accept it as gospel.

    I do agree that a vehicle with a larger weight, going at the same speed, and with the same reaction time from the driver would inevitably result in a poorer outcome. That's just common sense.

    The "need" for the vehicle on the road is not important.

    But the click bait headline that SUV drivers are 82% more likely to kill a child is purely just clickbait. You would want to be, or believe the readers are, morons to accept it as fact.

    Common sense isn't as common as it should be.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 12,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭BeerNut


    This means an adult is hit in the pelvis rather than the knees, while a child is struck on the head instead of lower on their body.

    A blunter front ends also means a person is more likely to be thrown forward, which could result in the vehicle hitting them a second time or rolling over their body, the report added.

    That reads like common sense to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,377 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    It would to most normal people.

    It's very sad that when the facts are presented to people like what you have on this thread and they still tell you that Black is white..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,377 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    I would accept the analysis of 24 studies, including 16 from the US, with others from countries such as France, Germany and the Netherlands over your unqualified opinion any day.. And using terms like Clickbait to try and degrade the contents of the article is just a deflection from the facts in these studies..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,749 ✭✭✭yagan


    I'd like to see someone prove that the average SUV is statistically safer for pedestrians than the traditional sized car.

    No one should be driving a Ford Ranger as a personal vehicle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Also ... laws of physics.

    Larger, heavier objects will exert more force and energy than smaller, lighter objects travelling at the same speed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,761 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The post I was replying to referred to Ranelagh in a metaphoric sense, rather than in a literal sense. The issue wasn't about number of deaths or injuries in a strict geographical area. It really doesn't matter whether child deaths are happening in Ranelagh or in rural Ireland. What matters is that child deaths are happening in collisions with vehicles



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    A child is more unlikely to survive a collision with a car than an adult would because the impact would likely result in trauma to the most important parts of their body (e.g head) and/or may propel them further due to the lack of body mass.

    If the car is larger and heavier, and happens to be going at the exact same speed as a smaller car would be, and the driver has the EXACT same reaction time, it could be worse for a child.

    Wow.

    Nobel prize for these absolute pioneers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,761 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    This might come as a surprise to you, but those who put their life's work into producing, peer reviewing and publishing papers like this are well aware of the ever so slightly superficial issues that you raise to dismiss findings that you don't personally like.
    If you want to look at the actual paper, you'll see the steps they took to avoid bias.
    https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/early/2025/04/11/ip-2024-045613
    In meta studies like this, they tend to look at very large amounts of data, in this case, 1936 other studies covering a combined sample size of 682 509 crash victims. With large numbers like these, the variables that you mention average out, so on both sides of the comparision, there will be a large range of speeds, road type and other variables. This allows them to focus on one particular variable, the vehicle type in this case, and see if there is a statistically significant difference, which there clearly is.
    But please, do tell us how you more than the paper authors and peer reviewers about how to produce public health research?

    I'd respectfully suggest that the ghoulish behaviour in this thread is those who are working really hard to try to hide the obvious, the increased danger of SUVs to pedestrians and cyclists, and particularly to children, because that doesn't suit their personal preferences.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,427 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i suspect when it comes to cars hitting pedestrians, that vehicle weight ceases to matter, except possibly in the case of the likelihood of the collision occurring in the first place.

    there's so much of a disconnect between the weight of a vehicle (and the kinetic energy it's carrying) and the weight of a human - especially a child - that to the human body, the vehicle may as well weigh ten tons - the weight of the human body will not impact the deceleration of the vehicle in any meaningful sense.

    one obvious comparison to make would be to compare the volvo XC90 with the volvo S90 of a comparable age - different body styles, but presumably similar technology to avoid collisions. the S90's most recent rating is from 2017 and the XC90's is from 2015. the S90 scores 76% for VRUs while the XC90 scores 72%.

    https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/volvo/s90/26099

    https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/volvo/xc90/20976



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,377 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    So in your critical analysis of all the reports are you stating categorically that the analysis of 24 studies is incorrect or is this just your unfathomable bias coming into play that causes you to see alternative facts?

    If all SUVs were replaced by standard cars, the number of pedestrians and cyclists killed in car crashes would decrease by an estimated 8% in Europe and 17% in the US, they said.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,845 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Whether it's 82%, 44%, 100% or any other % is unimportant. People losing their lives is what is important here. Bit of common sense suggests you are more likely to die in a collision with a lorry than a van, with a van than an SUV, with an SUV than a hatchback, than a car with a bike, etc etc etc

    It doesn't mean we should ban the above mentioned vehicles from our roads. Improving safety standards in those vehicles should be the priority



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 12,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭BeerNut


    They're not making a comparison between what happens to a child vs what happens to an adult. They're comparing what happens to a person hit by a traditional car vs what happens when it's an SUV.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    Those statistics would need to factor in the assumption that every aspect of the collision would be identical, and only the dimensions/weight of the vehicle were different.

    It is nonsense. If standard cars were replaced with joggers running at the same speed, there would be a descrease of 4239048%. We can all make up hypothetical situations.

    Every accident, every fatality and every injury are made up from different scenarios. It's dishonest.

    It's not my "critical analysis", it's my reading that bullshit is sometimes bullshit.

    Very much if my auntie had testicles she'd be my aunt. (sorry if that offended anyone)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,749 ✭✭✭yagan


    From this piece in The Atlantic from 2021.

    Americans have traded sedans for crossovers and SUVs for full-size pickups with total abandon over the past decade. To the extent that we think at all critically about the sheer bulk of the vehicles we drive, we’re usually motivated by environmental concerns. One common notion—though auto-safety experts will say it’s not that simple—is that it’s safer to get around in what’s basically a tank. But those benefits, exaggerated as they may be, are only for people inside the vehicle. People outside—pedestrians, cyclists, wheelchair users—are in more peril.

    Essentially people who've already ascended to their death tanks aren't interested in facts about their vehicles danger to others as they believe their own safety is more important than everyone's safety.

    Only the self obsessed narcissistic in Ireland can willfully ignore all the evidence that these commercial trucks should not be personal vehicles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,761 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    This might come as a surprise to you, but those who put their life's work into producing, peer reviewing and publishing papers like this are well aware of the ever so slightly superficial issues that you raise to dismiss findings that you don't personally like.
    If you want to look at the actual paper, you'll see the steps they took to avoid bias.
    https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/early/2025/04/11/ip-2024-045613
    In meta studies like this, they tend to look at very large amounts of data, in this case, 1936 other studies covering a combined sample size of 682 509 crash victims. With large numbers like these, the variables that you mention average out, so on both sides of the comparision, there will be a large range of speeds, road type and other variables. This allows them to focus on one particular variable, the vehicle type in this case, and see if there is a statistically significant difference, which there clearly is.
    But please, do tell us how you more than the paper authors and peer reviewers about how to produce public health research?

    I'd respectfully suggest that the ghoulish behaviour in this thread is those who are working really hard to try to hide the obvious, the increased danger of SUVs to pedestrians and cyclists, and particularly to children, because that doesn't suit their personal preferences.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    I appreciate your respectful advice, but I reject it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,749 ✭✭✭yagan


    Back in 2002, the New York Times writer Keith Bradsher noted in his book, High and Mighty, that the auto industry tapped into some “reptilian” impulses for more aggressive vehicles. A marketing savant at Chrysler in the 1990s, who helped launch the SUV trend, liked to compare the road to a “battlefield.” Bradsher quoted him as saying, “My theory is, the reptilian always wins. The reptilian says, ‘If there’s a crash, I want the other guy to die.’ Of course I can’t say that out loud.” He probably meant “the guy in the other car.” What about the guy in the street? In 2003, a study found that SUVs were three times more likely than sedans to kill pedestrians when they struck them. Leg injuries are dreadful, but “serious head and chest injuries can actually kill you,” the injury-biomechanics professor Clay Gabler told the

    Detroit Free Press

    From the piece I linked in my previous post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    Well that is conclusive enough for me.

    It's the reptiles. Always the reptiles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,240 ✭✭✭creedp


    Is it just a Ford Ranger or can you specify a category of vehicle that shouldn't be driven for personal use period



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,377 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    People need commercial Lorries and Van's to transport goods and equipment around the country, people don't need 4x4 cars which weigh 500kg more and are wider and higher than an average family car..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,749 ✭✭✭yagan


    Commercial class. There's commercial variations of standard cars too, even the new Hyundai Inster has a van version arriving too.

    The likes of a Ford Ranger,Raptor was not designed as a personal vehicle. Just because it may be used as one in the USA doesn't mean that applies here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,377 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    That's the Chicken Tax which allows light trucks to be in the same grouping as Cars, I can't see that happening here. Once people move away from ICE cars into heavier EV's the government may introduce a tax based on weight rather than emissions, so that will mean 2 tonne cars will be heavily taxed and costly to purchase and run..



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