Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Read OP for mod warnings before posting*

People on both sides of this need to be careful.

They are both vulnerable to ending up defending the indefensible or talking nonsense. Right wingers must not accept the likes of McGregor or fcking Putin, a mass murdering war criminal, as people who are worth listening to.

Likewise people on the left need to be responsible and not drift into nonsense like saying there's no problem because the population is lower than it was pre-Famine, or that St Patrick was an undocumented male immigrant.

All of this increases division and makes sensible policy less likely.

It's not controversial at all , just incorrect .

We had more housing than we could live in up to the crash . Numerous second homes and ghost estates .

Immigration up to that period was not affecting supply .

Supply has been squeezed here in the last 10 years . Down to lack of building and particularly social housing . Government relying on private developers to supply social housing gas squeezed out middle earners from the market .

Migration as shown in your second linked post is on a direct continuum with firstly membership of the EU , enlargement of the EU our growing economy and wars in Europe.

(Please note it conflates migration with those seeking asylum which is a more recent growing phenomena .)

Most of this migration has been directly beneficial to our growth as a successful open economy and as a society.

One only has to look at the years you are pointing out to see the vast improvements in our country over those 50 years.

I grew up in the 1970s . Ireland was insular and poor . It is a much better country to live in now albeit with issues that need work as every country has.

Socially as well as economically .

I generally agree with your posts as you appear to be more towards the centre here than others but not on this .

 exacerbated by low levels of construction during the recession. Immigration is the cause, the lack of construction is the exacerbating factor.

We were overstocked on homes during the recession to the point we were bulldozing housing estates.

You could actually buy an almost complete 60+ housing estate for less than 700K.

The lack of building on homes now is a direct result of the lunacy that led to that.

Even so 10s of 1000s of migrants currently work in our construction sector, we would be even more proper fecked without them.

This is reductionist again, while elements are just wrong. Property prices did increase very substantially during the Celtic Tiger, partly due to very loose credit post 2000, but in the late 90s prices had shot up also as large scale immigration arrived for the first time in living memory. Housing became far more expensive, renting property in cities was far more difficult than it had been for generations. There is no counterargument to this.

Also, you have utterly neglected the long term aspect. There are many, many adults living in Ireland now whose parents did not grow up here. Ireland hadn't a wave of immigration like that for centuries and its impact is being felt now.

You can still argue that the correct immigration policies have been followed, but it's frankly bizarre to claim that Ireland's housing crisis isn't due to immigration. It's very hard to believe that people who won't accept that aren't ideologically motivated.

Btw I've no disdain for immigrants, I was one myself for years. The housing crisis is in no way the fault of immigrants. IMO it'd be stupid and probably xenophobic to claim it is. It is however the fault of a flawed laissez faire approach of successive Irish governments to the issue of immigration.

So the protest isn't worrying any longer then?

Ultimately people aren't up in arms because they're racists, it's because an increasing number of people are being pitted against new arrivals for dwindling resources.

It's going to be a hard sell for the left wing parties in Ireland to scream blue murder about the housing crisis whilst at the same time encouraging increasing inward migration of low skilled asylum seekers. Try and explaining that to would be voters, particularly young people who will never own a home or have any sort of quality of life.

These are the supposed opposition in Irish politics, yet they side with the government on the most divisive issue in the country.

If Ireland was flush with resources, particularly housing, you wouldn't have had a fraction of that number of people protesting at the weekend. This is becoming existential issue for a growing number of people, it's like a whirlpool slowly growing and pulling more people towards it and it's all caused by the housing crisis.

Ahem. On one side there are people supporting a rapist (McGregor) and a mass-murdering war criminal (Putin).

On the other there are people pointing out that St. Patrick misplaced his passport and was an unvetted male when he was stolen from Wales.

False equivalence perchance?

1.5 million people marching against the imminent Iraq War in February 2003. I was at that. It was significant, but had no effect.

5k people on a sunny shopping day in central Dublin. That ain't significant.

No, obviously taking a lead from McGregor or playing a role in legitimising Putin is far worse. There's no doubt about that.

But it's also true that people shouldn't make silly arguments on the left, that just irritates people.

Juanita Broaddrick as I detailed above. Did not proceed in either criminal or civil courts. JB had stated under oath that Clinton did not assault her in 1978. She later changed her mind during his 1999 impeachment process after being approached by Republican supporters. She was seen with Clinton several times in the days and weeks after the alleged rape and at those times consistently expressed support for his campaign. She later altered the dates (both days and month) of the alleged assault. She stated that she had confided in five people but none came forward. She was neither consistent nor credible.

An accusation is an accusation. Until due process takes place it is nothing else.

The anti-immigration far-right got annihilated in the November 2024 election. No other take on it.

What would be your wording on a referendum and what constitutional change would you be asking for?

What type of referendum would you like constitutional or ordinary?

I'm going to assume constitutional because for an ordinary referendum the president would need a petition from both the dail and the seanad. With the lack of anti-immigration candidates that is highly unlikely (and an ordinary referendum has never been held in the state).

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/elections-and-referenda/types-of-elections-and-referendums/constitutional-referendum-in-ireland/

For a constitutional referendum what are we inserting/removing or amending in the constitution?

What is the constitutional question you would like asked of the citizens of Ireland?

Read the election results and the exit poll please.

Again I ask for your response regarding a constitutional referendum? What wording and what clause are you requesting to change?

No insults in my posts. I'd say my posts are in the top 5 most reported in this thread. So I certainly wouldn't get away with an insult.

You must have some idea of what question you want to ask the people of Ireland.

You cant want a referendum and have no idea what question you want asked in a referendum. That would make no sense at all to me.

I'm not asking for a Solicitor or Barristers opinion on it but I am expecting you to be able to at least have some idea what the question should look like.

"But sure didnt we all emigrate all over the world, sure anyway McGregor is a rapist and all our welcome"