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Tenant damage not noted on final inspection report from Management Agent

  • 26-03-2025 12:00AM
    #1
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭


    A tenant has just vacated a property I have rented and managed by a management company. I was told they were good tenants and looking after the property. This proved to be untrue.

    On final inspection, they said the propery was in worn condition, with a few small issues, needed a deep clean and painting but was otherwise ok. This was also incorrect.

    When I inspected the property I was quite shocked to see the condition was much poorer than noted by the agent, with many things broken though misuse or deliberately broken. None is recent damage (at end of tenancy) and should have been picked up during routine inspections while the tenant was in situ. The deposit is not going to cover the cost of repairs.

    I know the agent is not liable for the damage caused by the tenant. However, I am struggling to understand what level of service they are providing for their fee if they don't notice obvious things at routine inspections.

    Have I any comeback on the poor management service from the company?



Comments

  • #2
    3DataModem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,173 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Check your contract or other agreement with the company. I'm guessing there's not much of an agreement.

    Yes, you can find them liable for not completing inspections that they were contracted to do, if the contracted agreement is clear, but in most cases I have seen it is never that clear.

    My agent uploads a walk-through video to myletman, or uploads a checklist signed by the tenant, so I have some comfort the inspections are taking place.

    My advice is to complain, maybe get some fees back, then move to a good agent.



  • #3
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,539 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    How long was the tenant there? Could things have been already broken when they moved in?



  • #4
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123298625#Comment_123298625

    You are spot on ...the terms of the agreement are vague at best. I dont think they can contract out of their responsibility by being vague or silent.

    I agree about new agent time. Property management seems to be a hit and miss sector that is very poorly regulated. Your set up seems superior to mine. I never get a signed report of the inspection. That's very transparent.

    @Mrs OBumble

    They are there a long time. Some landlords want an easy life and ensure their tenants have a nice place to live with everything clean and working from day one. None of these issues would have existed before they took up residence, nor are they normal wear and tear.



  • #5
    airy fairy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭airy fairy


    When my tenant vacated, the management company signed off that all was ok, deposit to be returned.

    But in fact we found a hole in the bath. A hole. Looks like the tenant was clearing shelves over the bath with heels on and in it went.

    Got back to management, came out took photos. We refused to return deposit and repair of bath was impossible obviously so it needed replacing. Tenant refused to accept this and brought us to rtb.

    Rtb, eventually, heard the case and deemed that because we would be replacing bath that we were putting value into the house, and only deemed the tenant liable to pay half with the test of her deposit to be returned. In hindsight we should've went further as it was a ridiculous ruling.

    Anyway point is, unless you think you'll get a decent amount of deposit back, don't bother going after them. The management company's findings in final inspection stood and refused to accept they messed up. I just had to let it go and move on. Unfortunately the next one was as useless as the other and didn't check references thoroughly and we got burned massively financially.



  • #6
    Markcheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,062 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    I'm assuming if the letting agent didn't carry out the checks and inspections that they'd agreed to then they could be held at least partially liable , but the issue would be proving that they didn't perform the checks - and any damages are directly as a result of them not performing their duties

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • #7
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,220 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I find it had to see any advantage to using an agent. Fees are astronomical and you have no comeback if they mess up. Yes technically you can sue but you are unlikly to get decent not to mind fully compensated. you are probably paying 7-10% of the rent roll Inc vat for this excersise. where tenants are nowadays insitu for for 3-4 years they can collect 3.5-10k in that time span. you still pay ongoing costs on top of that

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #8
    herbalplants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,450 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123298901#Comment_123298901

    I so agree with you. I find hiring agents such a waste of money.

    Remember the shills only get paid when you react to them.



  • #9
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    I find it had to see any advantage to using an agent.

    I agree. 7% of rent plus vat and not doing much for it. It was a legacy thing for me but I have to review my position now.



  • #10
    Zennor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7 ✭Zennor


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123298716#Comment_123298716

    Depends on what a long time is and how much is deemed fair wear and tear. I am guessing that like most Irish tenancies there is no conditional survey (as opposed to a simple list of contents) so ultimately very hard to prove the condition at start of tenancy v end of tenancy.



  • #11
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    That's a fair point, however, it's easy to prove who did this. Its all since they moved in.



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  • #12
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,805 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    If you want compensation from a tenant for damage at the end of a letting you have to point out the damage to the tenant and give them an opportunity to make good the damage. It is a fat lot of good moaning about damage afther the tenant has gone.



  • #13
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,220 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123396824#Comment_123396824

    I think @Kaisr Sose was on more about the poor service by the agent. He know he can get no compensation from the tenant as the agent signed off on it.

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #14
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123396824#Comment_123396824

    What @Bass Reeves said is correct.



  • #15
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,962 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123298901#Comment_123298901

    Don't you get the vat back and deduct the fees against your tax bill too? I don't use them but I will be in the future as I don't have the time to deal with tenants for properties I don't own for elderly relatives



  • #16
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,805 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123401160#Comment_123401160

    How could you get the VAT back? In order to reclaim VAT, you have to be charging VAT. there is no VAT on rents, yet!



  • #17
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,962 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123401176#Comment_123401176

    I asked a question as I was not sure. You can certainly deduct the cost of management and letting fees which will include the vat if not deducted



  • #18
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,805 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    The VAT is a deductible expense unlike a situation where it can be reclaimed by a person registered for VAT who is charging VAT.



  • #19
    jay1988
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 629 ✭✭✭jay1988


    Not surprising to hear at all. I moved out of a rented apartment a few years ago, the day the LA was supposed to come and inspect the place he rang instead and asked my partner if there was any damage or the like he needed to be aware of (there wasn't) he just said, ah grand I haven't got the time to do the inspection so I'll just sign off on it and tell the landlord he can return the deposit.

    Now we were good tenants who only moved out because we needed a bigger place but in the 3 years i lived there I met that LA once and he did a 2 minute inspection that consisted of opening doors to look in the rooms and then left. Lucky for the LL we weren't bad tenants because the whole place could've been destroyed and it would've been way to late for him to have any comeback on us if it was.



  • #20
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,220 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123401314#Comment_123401314

    O great as if we were not aware of that. Yes it's an allowable expense.

    However 7%+vat is over 8.5% of your rent roll. If you are using an agent and they are taking nearly 1.3 a year (2k a month rent)you expect a proper service. Nowadays tenants are insitu maybe 3-5 years so agent collects 4-6.5k for themselves and it costs you 5-8k in that time frame.

    There's only one winner abd that is the agent. In my case my rents are less than 1k/ months for the two small houses I have an agent would probably want 10%+of the rent roll.

    People crib about LL's however they fail to see the workload and the costs involved. In other countries you have the option to rent completely empty houses, house is painted white when tenant moves in. After 5.…10.…15 yesrsits handed back fully maintained and painted white.

    With building maintenance costs increasing at 5-10% a year we are limited to 2% or less rent increases.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #21
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,962 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123402899#Comment_123402899

    Sorry I don't understand what you are saying. I would have thought if you pay 6k to a company as an expense and you get the tax back means it only cost roughly 3k assuming you are paying top tax rate. You seem to suggest it costs more after tax deductions



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  • #22
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,805 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123403293#Comment_123403293

    My reading of it is that he agrees with you in the first line. the rest is a general rant about paying fees at all.
    My experience is that agents do let only, let and manage and let only. Some charge percentage fees and some charge flat fees. A good agent can be very useful and a bad agent can be harmful.



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