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Solar for Beginners [ask your questions here]

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,780 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    No worries, I didn't think there was anything wrong with your query! :)



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,633 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    what voltage runs between the panels and the inverter?

    the reason i ask is that i had thought it was about 50v, but i've been informed by at least two companies that they will not install the 'high voltage DC cables' inside floor or wall cavities - which would mean i'd have to run it down the outside of the house.

    the plan would have been to install the inverter and battery in our garage, beside the meter and fuse box, but i was trying to avoid cabling going over the garage roof as i'll have to have the roof repaired soon enough.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,633 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    FWIW i had assumed that if a cable rated to run a 9kW electric shower can be run internally, that cables for a solar panel array with a lower max power could be too, but i guess the voltages could change that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,988 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    It's 50v DC per panel, roughly. So 10 * 50v panels will generate 500v DC. I'm going to guess that the reason that they won't run it through floor or walls is simply for ease of install as they don't want to be drilling joists and patching plasterboard, if they can help it. External clipping is much quicker for their teams.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,633 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Aha - I assumed it was 50v in total. We're a little unusual in that we had the house rewired just over a year ago but still haven't replaced carpets etc which would be in the way, making it much easier to run those cables.

    I guess if we put the battery and inverter in the attic it'd solve that problem, but I want them in the garage.

    I'm looking at at least 14 panels , possibly 18 so that could be over 1.5kV.

    one installer came back with a firm 'high voltage DC cables should never be concealed within walls or floors' from their engineer, and another came back with a (i'm paraphrasing here) 'yeah, be grand, we can do whatever you want'.

    i'm guessing some of them are glossing over the routing of the cables being contingent on where the inverter and battery are.



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    If 18 it will be over 2 strings so 2 sets of 500v ISH

    Per panels is more like 40ish v but close enough



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,988 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Well, 18 would normally be split into two even strings, so 9x50v = 450v per string.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,633 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    cheers, slight brain fade there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Another thing to consider is if it's a long cable run, DC (as opposed to AC) will incur a higher loss on the cable. It's hard to give a % loss as it depends on a lot of factors such as temperature, size of the cable, metal used for the wire, but if it's longer than (say) 10m from the solar panels to the inverter, that can play a part. How much is hard to say, but it can be a good reason to avoid a long DC run where possible. I obviously don't know the distances your talking about here, but something to be aware of.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,633 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    cheers - it's a 50s semi d with a garage on the side. very similar to this (this is not my house) so 10m is about the extent of it.

    image.png


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    I've a long run, we used 6mm2 instead of 4mm2

    It was also easier just to use a 5 core armoured in my case.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,633 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    another quote, another hardware brand i've not heard of before - growatt. this crowd supply growatt inverter, battery, and car charger - so now i need to figure out are they proprietary.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,988 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Growatt are common enough. To work out whether they are insular or extroverted in a technology-sense, just have a look at their plugin for HA:

    https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/growatt_server/

    image.png

    Cloud polling = insular. 😆



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,633 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    cheers - i assume a growatt inverter could talk to a non-growatt battery, etc.? i don't want to lock myself into a system



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,780 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Me again.

    Okay, I got the quote back and it would be an additional €717 to increase from 5 panels to 8. By their estimation, going from 5 to 8 and would generate more kwH than my entire annual usage last year.

    Or, I can go from 5 panels to 10, for an additional €1,192, and its estimated will generate about 900 kwH per year more than I used last year.

    Advice appreciated!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭ECO_Mental


    Best advice is to put as many panels on your roof as possible...you will never hear people say I've put too many up!. Most of the cost is the scaffolding labour etc, panels themselves are cheap enough do maximise this.

    6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,618 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    They're probably paying under €80 per panel + brackets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,106 ✭✭✭Soarer


    I use a Nest to time the hot water with our gas boiler. Is there any sort of smart/timed switch that can be installed by an idiot to allow the immersion heat up during the 3 hour EV window?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    I'd echo what everyone will tell you, as many panels as you can realistically afford/fit. It's not JUST about your consumption either. Remember all the suppliers charge a standing rate. Energia charges me €0.74/day, so you have ~€250/year to cover in standing charges too, so exporting as much as you can during summer to cover that too helps!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,780 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Thanks, I'm most likely going to go for the ten panel option. Just have to get it scheduled now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 317 ✭✭mjatkey


    I use one of these, you can even set up a little script in HA so it switches on when solar is x and house load is y, similar operation to the fancy Eddie ones.

    I just charge during the EV window.

    30A Hight Power WiFi Wireless Smart Switch, DIY Module for Smart Home Automation, ewelink APP Remote Control, Timer, Compatible with Alexa & Google Home : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

    🌞 6.96kWp PV System. West Dublin🌞



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭oleras


    Going ahead with a solar instal. Everyone says max out the panels on day 1 as it wont be cheaper than that day to get them on the roof. Im E/W with a S garage roof, Bungalow with no velux or dormer so lots of space.

    Most installers recommend doing a 50/50 split between the main roof, E/W , 16x440(435) , they have all said that it will more than meet my current needs, 4500 kWh and using kilowatt.ie to punch in some numbers its giving me a small credit over the 12 months.

    Currently use OFCH and 2 stoves to heat the house, oil costs maybe 1000 a year and similar on wood.

    Wont be getting rid of the stoves but may look at heat pump options in a few years.

    Again, using kilowatt.ie and adding a heat pump i would need 28 panels and 20kWh storage to be in credit.

    Adding batterys myself, am i limited to a realistic 20kWh setup to avail of the 4 hour Ev window during winter months when sun aint that high or go with a 30kWh storage ?

    Roughly, if i spend 10k now on panels and inverter and add 3k for battery storage later is that a waste of money, taking into account current and future FET ?

    Head is melted…



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,633 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    would you be using solar to charge the car?

    if you can sell to the grid (today!) for 19c per unit, and charge the car at night for ~7c per unit, financially it makes more sense to sell the excess from solar to the grid rather than use it to charge the car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭oleras


    No EV's and dont really intend on upgrading at the moment.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,633 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    ah, i read your reference to the EV window as being specifically about EVs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Sorry for stating the obvious, S facing panels are better than E and W in winter months. Depends on how much it will cost you to have a set of panels on the garage roof.

    Will you need to do trench from the house / what distance is it from the house? Do you have land for a ground mounted instead of using the roof at all?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭oleras


    Thats my thinking also, site visit basically said its much of much splitting them between E/W and very little to gain by using the garage roof…

    All plant, now and future will be in that garage on a wall, its a separate building, connected by an arch so will be trunking back to board, ~25m, so splitting a string between roofs is very feasible.

    Can you max out the inverter with too many panels because it can only handle a certain kWh, but realistically all panels are not running at 100% efficiency all daylight hours…kinda answering my own Q there.

    I have the land, and its all S facing, along a fenceline, but have been advised not to go that route as its a lot more expensive and more open to damage.

    Edit to add, he had software that calculated the suns movement and it was much of much how they were splt as far as i remember.

    Post edited by oleras on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭oleras


    Untitled Image

    garage side nearest house is South facing



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,633 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Looks liked it'd be shaded in the morning, possibly?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,363 ✭✭✭con747


    You can calculate generation on the tool below and look up Sun Path app by Siranet on google playstore to see the suns path around your house over the year. https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/#PVP

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



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