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Dublin - BusConnects

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,000 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Anyone heard anything on the 2 corridors that were supposed to go to construction this year? Seems unlikely at this stage?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    They are, as I have posted before, not due to start until Q4.

    Just because there’s no news reports doesn’t mean nothing is happening.

    Both are out to tender per documents prepared for the DCC council meeting this week with Swords & Tallaght/Clondalkin anticipated to be the next two corridors to go to tender.

    The board minutes of the NTA are also worth watching in the absence of news reports.

    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/about-us/board/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 Eduard_The_2nd


    anyone has any inside news or any ideas on when the development for Bray CBC could potentially start? I know the JR window closed on Mar 25th, but can't find anywhere what happened with that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    As I already answered in the other thread - no one can give you an answer, other than it won’t be for some time (as in several years) as at least four other schemes are ahead of it.

    Until we know the status of any JR applications, you won’t get any more information. That will drip feed out of the courts service in due course.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    In a way its one of the nicer aspects of the project being split and sections being built staggered that the JRs will likely be wrapped up (whatever way they fall) before those schemes would be due to go to construction.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    If the JR window for Bray closed on March 25th, how can Shankill nimbys be trying to launch a JR?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Maybe they have and are still fundraising.

    Until we see the court listings we won’t know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    I believe that the JR window closes 8 weeks after the notification is published, not the actual decision date.

    Apparently for Bray this date was 27th of February?

    From a recent conversation:

    "The ABP order was issued on 28th January as the post on boards.ie says but the deadline for judicial reviews is eight weeks from when the notices are published. The notices were published on 27th February so the deadline is 24th April."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 144 ✭✭yascaoimhin


    There really needs be some pre-review for these JRs, like if you think ABP did something wrong or illegal, present a summary of what exactly they did incorrectly. Not "I dont think this was fair lets have a detailed and prolonged court case discussing at length why". You need to have substantial evidence that there is a need for a Judicial Review before you can take one. Like the Gaurds dont take people to court and then find a crime to fit after they're in front of the judge



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    there is isn't there - a judge has to decide to let it proceed before it goes to a full hearing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,879 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Breaking News:

    DCC have won their court appeal to proceed with the Sandymount Cycle Way project.

    I suppose this project is the one that goes along the Irishtown Beach Road part of Sandymount.

    The S2 to Hueston Station goes past that road when going up the Educate Schools on the Beach Road while going up to Sandymount Green with then going up towards past the Dart Station to the RDS. Does anyone know if that roundabout outside the school near the former 18 terminus in Sandymount already removed or is it still there?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    It was removed as part of the initial works that started before DCC were brought to court over the trial. As a result, it was "reinstated" through the use of plastic bollards and I believe some temporary kerbing.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    What will be the first four bus connects corridors to move to construction?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    My posts on 9th March and 8th April have answered that.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Liffey Valley

    Swords

    Tallaght/Clondalkin


    What’s the 4th one?

    What on earth is taking the NTA so long? Just pick 4 bloody corridors that aren’t being JRd and get on with it. I don’t see why they didn't get the tenders out right after planning assent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 262 ✭✭specialbyte


    Liffey Valley and Ballymun/Finglas are first and are currently being tendered.

    Swords is actually the subject of a JR as far as I know.

    Tallaght/Clondalkin is probably pretty high on the list as it is a huge improvement for buses and cycling along the whole length of the corridor.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Swords is actually the subject of a JR as far as I know.

    Is it? I hadn't heard that. I haven't seen a mention of a Swords JR anywhere else.

    Balls I see you are right, mentioned here:

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2024-10-17/65/

    The Blanchardstown and Swords schemes are both the subject of ongoing Judicial Reviews



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭davetherave


    This was Eamon Ryan in the Dail back in October -

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2024-10-17/65/

    An Bord Pleanála has approved eight CBC schemes so far, including the Ballymun/Finglas, Blanchardstown and Swords CBC schemes serving the Fingal area. The Blanchardstown and Swords schemes are both the subject of ongoing Judicial Reviews. However, the Ballymun/Finglas scheme is currently part of the first tender competition for construction of CBC’s, along with the Liffey Valley scheme. I expect to see construction commence on the first of the CBC’s next year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Looks like there's a proposed change on the Liffey Valley Corridor in Ballyfermot?

    Proposed Design Refinements Ballyfermot Road Jan25.pdf

    Surely they can't modify it this much after receiving planning approval? Looks like too much to fall under just a section 28?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 269 ✭✭PlatformNine


    I didn't realise Swords was in JR, and I think that makes five CBCs already in JR? Blanch, Blackrock, Clongriffin, Rathfarnham, and Swords. And I believe Bray now has a JR filed against it, although it appears it hasn't been granted leave yet.

    I find this just unfortunate as this now means that two adjacent corridors in north Dublin and three adjacent corridors in south Dublin are currently in JR. And while we are still waiting for the Kimmage CBC, it could additionally mean four adjacent corridors and over half of the scheme could be in JR by the end of the year.

    As bad as having more than half of the scheme in JR may be, I think having four adjacent CBCs in JR is the real problem, I think it could potentially delay the scheme by years. If TII/NTA find themselves in a position where two of the last four corridors to begin consturction are adjacent, they may have no choice but to build them sequentially rather than consecutively.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,982 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Surely these JRs are being brought through the new planning courts that FFG setup though no?

    The idea of these courts was to speed up planning decisions so maybe we could end up with shorter JR timescales?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    I see the Shankill objectors are saying the E1 should use the motorway which is getting bus-lanes anyway under a different NTA plan. That's not a terrible idea in fairness - with the rerouted L14 and 45a there would still be regular connections from Shankill to Bray and the N11 and they have the Dart every 10 mins as well. The benefit of the BC corridor through Shankill seems marginal enough given they're not doing anything in the village itself - the E1 skips out places like Cabinteely and Stillorgan in favour of staying on the N11, why not skip Shankill as well. I'm sure there's another bunch of Shankillites who would object to losing their direct bus to town though.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I haven't checked the details of the plan for this area, but a general comment. BusConnects isn't just about buses, it is also about building high quality cycle lanes and improving pedestrian infrastructure.

    So while you could redirect buses onto the Motorway, that obviously wouldn't work for cyclists/pedestrians.

    Again, I haven't looked at the plans for this area, so I don't know if it is an issue in this area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    it does very little for cyclists either - the original plan had an "alternative" route via backstreets that no cyclist would have used. The updated version just removed this. There's already cycle lanes on the approaches to Shankill village, they could be much improved but I don't think it would require much land-take.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 230 ✭✭Bsharp


    think only 5 have clean planning applications that can go to construction. Ballymun Finglas and Liffey Valley which are both out for tender. Then tallaght clondalkin, Ringsend and Lucan.

    Four of them are 10km + so not small schemes to be underway at the same time.

    The EIAR has a cumulative impact assessment which said Lucan and Liffey Valley may not be built at the same time because of their proximity to one another.

    Post edited by Bsharp on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    There’s a big difference between the situation at Stillorgan & Cabinteely/Cornelscourt and that at Shankill.

    In the case of the two former locations there are still relatively short walks to the alternative bus stops on the Stillorgan Road and Bray Road respectively - not an option with a motorway.

    In this case the alternative stop for the E1 would be at Loughlinstown Hospital (a long way away) and you’d be replacing a high frequency Spine route with a 30 min local bus.

    In terms of time saved - you do have to look at the entirety of the corridor and not just one single location. They all add up and can be the difference cumulatively between getting another trip out of the bus and driver.

    It’s not just the connection to the city, those buses carry people to/from points all along the route - I don’t see that being a runner at all with the people who actually use the bus to/from Shankill, whom I suspect are not the people objecting (I see that the main funder of the JR claim is a partner in a trading firm who just happens to own a large mansion in Shankill and might lose some land).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,107 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    This is the same for all projects in the state.

    We have the money there but seem utterly incapable of getting anything underway.

    Aside from the short M28 in Cork there is not a single transport infrastructure of any significance actually underway anywhere in the country.

    It's ridiculous, it's hurting the country and it's impossible to understand why.

    The planning system is messed up. It takes to long and allows any malcontents to hold up infrastructure for years.

    It's a joke.

    Post edited by Kermit.de.frog on


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