M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

Galway could have had plenty of infrastructure money but they chose to spend the last decade trying to ram through a project which obviously wasn't going to happen. They refused to even consider spending money on anything else.

Waterford is in between a major port and a large city though so bypassing it is strategic for alot of non city traffic.

Galway doesn't have enough non city traffic to justify building it before Waterfords.

I’d argue that Cullen was good at delivery, full stop. His angling for Waterford pre-dates his time at Transport. The story you’re referring to isn’t in that episode, but in this one: 'Deise Today' special: Martin Cullen in studio with Damien Tiernan • Déise Today (from 23’00”)

From the people he’s mentioning, it’s clear that he’s talking about the 1990s, not the 2000s. Summary: in late 1990s the original plan for Dublin to the southeast was to upgrade N11, Cullen lobbied for the N9 corridor to be used instead on the basis that it served more of the country, at planning, the design of the motorway sections was planned to start at Newbridge (he says “Naas”, but M9 already existed to south of Newbridge at this time) and move south, and he insisted that the design work should start at the Waterford end and move north instead.

What’s untrue is the claim that an upgrade of N9 was excluded from the NDP, because here’s the text:

…yes, it wasn't drawn in on the map at the back as a “motorway”, but it was to be built as at least a dual carriageway, which is exactly what happened (there was no 2+2 type in those days: almost all of these roads except M1 were built as that “improved dual carriageway” standard, but then redesignated as motorway in 2009). I give credit to Cullen for making sure N9 was on that list, rather than N11, but by the time he was Minister for Transport, the plans were already in place and he didn’t have to do anything to “push” them.

It’s debatable how much push was needed for N25 Waterford, as this was always a high-priority scheme, and the Waterford Outer Ring Road was the work of the City Council.

I’m from Waterford but now live in Cork, and from following the growth of both cities over the last 20-30 years, it has always struck me just how much better Waterford’s land management and planning is compared to Cork’s (and in terms of civic spaces, Waterford is far ahead of Cork). Waterford County is pretty good too: compare the development of Tramore with that of Carrigaline. Galway’s ineptitude, however, makes Cork look like Helsinki by comparison.

It was the design that started at the Waterford end: the two southern segments of M9 (Carlow-Knocktopher, Knocktopher-Waterford) were actually the last to be built. And yes, credit is due to Cullen for insisting on this order.

From what I understand of the merger, former-City staff now have responsibility for the eastern half of the county, and former-County staff manage the west.

To drag this back on topic (sorry everyone else), one problem with Galway is that it is still a City and County council, and with the best will in the world, that can lead to in-fighting. In what I think is an example of this, at its eastern side, the routing of N6 runs entirely within the City council boundaries rather than taking a wider orbit that would be more useful as a bypass. I can’t help thinking that this very urban route was chosen partly on the basis of keeping commercial rates income for any new development within the City Council area… I’m at a loss to see any other reason for making the road so much more expensive to build than an alternative routing to the east of the Galway Technology Park, rather than between that park and the Racecourse.

Was never going to happen with all the "Green" quackery going around Galway the last 10 years. Now that they have been successfully upgraded from the "endangered list" to "near extinct" we can finally get out of the 1980s.

The ring road is not going to make driving in the city centre any better. Galway's city centre will always be gridlock because there are too many cars for such narrow streets and too many people decide to drive in and out at rush hour.

According to the traffic surveys for this project, just 5% of traffic in Galway crosses the Corrib.

More car infrastructure will only encourage more driving. If this road goes ahead all it will do is encourage more urban sprawl and more people driving into and around the city.

The only way out of this mess for Galway is for proper alternatives like protected cycle lanes, bus priority & heavily restrict car access to the city.

that Sounds like an efficient green strategy to me

… not for Galway then

And in galway's case, the election results speak for themselves.

Well what speaks even louder than election results are court case results, and that's where the Galway Ring Road keeps failing. You can't just not comply with national or EU regulations because they don't suit you. Maybe they should start off by trying to design a solution which might actually clear all the necessary hurdles instead of spending years on something which they admit will do little to resolve Galway's traffic problems.

See it’s not solely about traffic going into the city centre. Yes city centre traffic might still be congested with a ring road but Look at the N17 with traffic out passed the racecourse entrance, Westside, Headford road, Quincentennial Bridge, Bóthar na dTteabh to name but a few all choked with traffic every single day! Many (I would personally say vast majority) are just trying to get from side to the other. With only 4 vehicle bridges crossing the river corrib only 1 of which being designed for modern day car use (built in 1984)!

Look when it rains, when a car breaks down or a minor accident the traffic across the city comes to a standstill. And don’t get me started for big events, Macnas parade, big match day in Pearse stadium etc etc!

A ring road is paramount to Galway’s development and was due 20 years ago! The ring road will also spur on and have a knock on effect of further developments and possibly new retail centres etc along the ring road further eliminating further traffic needs of going into the city.

Then maybe then, once ring road is completed public transport can be really targeted. The previously tried park and ride from the racecourse with no bus lane for only the bus to be stuck in the same traffic you would be in anyway in your car…..

As has already been said, only single digit &ages are traffic crossing the corrib, the vast vast majority is traffic into the city

How is it inaccurate? They did remove a motorway going through the city. The A2, A27 and N230 do form a perimeter around the city. Everything I said is true, regardless of whether people are against widening the roads there. It is still true. They can also take that position because they already have roads and public transportation options plus a world class cycling infrastructure. We don't have the roads, the cycling infrastructure or the public transports. All 3 have to be tackled.

Councillors from Limerick, Cork and Galway all visited Utrecht including members of the transport strategy committee.

Here is an excerpt from their study:

Utrecht has a population of approximately 361,742 and would see themselves as leaders in terms of cycling. Helmets or high visibility clothes are not widely worn. Bicycles are cheap with an uncomplicated design. They are not anti-car. Over 50 % of houses have three bikes yet their car ownership is very high.They choose to cycle in the City Centre.

Its estimated that close 2.7 million people from outside Galway visit the city each year as domestic or international tourists. The population in Galway was forecast to double by 2040 but since that forecast was published, the massive influx over the last 3 years occurred so it is going to outstrip that for sure. The rural bus network is hopefully getting massive improvements in the near future. Oranmore trains station is getting a passing track. Use of the train between Athenry and Galway and Oranmore and Galway has already increased by 25%+. No extra parking in sight for Athenry or Oranmore stations is a limiting factor as is the lack of work for Gort, Ardrahan and Craughwell. They did well by bringing ticket prices down. They also did well by increasing frequency already but a lot more is needed, imo including parking at the stations. As it is the illegal parking at Oranmore is a nuisance.

There is no "'no more roads' group on here"' loud or otherwise, that is just you portraying yourself as a victim. People have been pointing out that what is proposed has serious flaws designed in (and the remedies inexplicably completely ignored in the design), such that it is likely incompatible with the laws it must comply with.

You are just further pushing the fallacy that a small number of evil people are holding the GCRR back. The truth is that it is the design itself and the supporting documents prepared with it which are holding it back. Focusing on the current iteration (ignoring the previous proposal which wasted about a decade), it has been through ABP, then to the courts, currently back with ABP for reconsideration and will almost certainly go back to the courts (both Irish and European) after that. All because the project is fatally flawed and there is outright refusal to recognise this.

Rambling on about public and political support is just a coping mechanism to continue the pretense that the design is sound rather than face reality.