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Entitlements.

  • 10-04-2025 08:43PM
    #1
    wrangler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,489 ✭✭✭✭


    Is everyone getting entitlements too easy now, no demand for renting them now anyway.



Comments

  • #2
    epfff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭epfff


    Haven't looked yet.

    But with the amount of guys that got young farmers entitlements around me there has to be a surplus about.

    The system is 20 years old I'm thinking it's time to start again.



  • #3
    Hard Knocks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123345221#Comment_123345221

    could be back to premiums yet



  • #4
    V6400
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 171 ✭✭V6400


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123345221#Comment_123345221

    Don't be heard saying that too loud or you could be lynched by the lads with big entitlements.



  • #5
    epfff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭epfff


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123346809#Comment_123346809

    Locally they have tried and failed several times over the last 20 years.

    I got badly screwed by a honest mother and poor Teagasc advisor while I was still in school myself but it's ok I'm still in business and getting stronger.



  • #6
    epfff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭epfff


    On serious note

    I always rented few entitlements because I always prioritized other capital expenditure. This year I'll be able to rent about 20 but looking at benefits of not renting today.



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  • #7
    Quitelife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    sums up a farming thread perfectly- entitlements.
    Many farmers want free money for everything and pay no tax and get their children through third level on free grants -why should farmers get grants when their buying tractors etc for 100K ?
    produce the goods and charge whatever they need to and people will buy it if they can afford to instead of the constant hand out



  • #8
    dmakc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭dmakc


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123347234#Comment_123347234

    Absolute drivel. Next.



  • #9
    tedimc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 628 ✭✭✭tedimc


    I'm thinking about buying entitlements this year, as I've been renting 24 for the last couple of years.

    Am I mad? I know the advice is to go low, but I've been quoted 2.4 times for a value around 120. I was offered some at 205 for 2.0 times value.

    I might split it 50/50 and rent the low ones at 40% value and buy the high ones. Seems to worked out the best option profit wise.

    Is there any rumours what will happen entitlements in 2027? Is there a chance they become worthless?



  • #10
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,201 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123348859#Comment_123348859

    If You buy any but the low value ones. With convergence tge low value ones will increase in value while the higher value ones will decrease. ECO is worth about 65 euro. 205 entitlements will be 270 which is slightly above the national average. A 120 entitlement will be worth 200 Inc eco by 2027

    There is strong speculation that all entitlements will be abolished in the next CAP and Basic payment will be a flat payment accross all land put into your Area Aid application with ECO and CRISS added

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #11
    Siamsa Sessions
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    ECO and CRISS are around €100/HA as far as I remember and you don’t need entitlements to draw that down. I can only assume that’s devalued entitlements overall.

    I haven’t been at an IFA meeting since early 2024 but there used to be a big opposition at the county executive to convergence. There were a few who had big payments and they were very vocal about it. But whether IFA or other farm orgs can do much to fight it is debatable.

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



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  • #12
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,201 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123349121#Comment_123349121

    The Fight over convergence is over. At the start of this round the maximum entitlement was it 750 I am not completely sure if that is right.. About 40% of that was ECO. ECO was flat rated at 65 , entitlements were also reduced to fund CRISS. That hit high value entitlements hard meaning BISS values in the above situation is heading for 400 with ECO and CRISS on top. By 2027 maximum value will be 350ish.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #13
    Siamsa Sessions
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123349167#Comment_123349167

    I agree - that ship has sailed.

    And trying to fight it shows how wide of the mark IFA are. They were straddling both sides of the fence before the current CAP was brought in (“upward only convergence”) and came across as very weak in general.

    I’m not sure what’ll happen next but the days of big entitlements seem to be gone

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • #14
    wrangler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,489 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123348859#Comment_123348859

    I'd sat that they'll be cheaper, I've some for rent at €217 in donedeal and have had no interest, I got 50% last year.



  • #15
    wrangler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,489 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123348859#Comment_123348859

    Buying entitlements is like buying land in that it's not tax deductible, renting them should be more attractive in that it is tax deductible.

    At the moment, if I was to sell them, 20% of the entitlements would go back to the reserve and then 35% 0f the money would go in Capital Gains Tax, so i might as well just forfeit the whole bloody lot



  • #16
    epfff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭epfff


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123349582#Comment_123349582

    Do you not enjoy retirement relief if you sell?

    Or is it that you rented for a few years you no longer qualify?



  • #17
    wrangler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,489 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123349621#Comment_123349621

    I never thought of that, that takes the harm out of it



  • #18
    techman1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 902 ✭✭✭techman1


    Just wondering if you sell entitlements now after originally buying them say a decade ago, surely you should be able to subtract your original purchase price from the proceeds of the sale today like selling any other asset?



  • #19
    wrangler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,489 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123349778#Comment_123349778

    You're right but a lot of us got them for nothing based on our production beforehand



  • #20
    farmertipp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 751 ✭✭✭farmertipp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123347234#Comment_123347234

    get a life you tool. learn what you are talking about. nobody bats an eyelid if a transport company buys a new lorry but farmers have to use **** equipment in your view



  • #21
    MIKEKC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭MIKEKC


    But do the transport companys get grants and subsidies?



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  • #22
    tedimc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 628 ✭✭✭tedimc


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123349582#Comment_123349582

    I think the clawback on entitlements has been paused for a year or two, so I don't think 20% would go back this year.



  • #23
    sonnybill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭sonnybill


    no clawback on sale of entitlements this year , supposed to come back in 2026



  • #24
    Silverdream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 665 ✭✭✭Silverdream


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123347234#Comment_123347234

    Thats not true, in fact it has come full circle for farmers where capital investments like say a new milking machine are added back to the profit and loss in the Susi calculations, this does not apply to a builder, etc so for example a shopkeeper could buy new fridges for the shop the capital cost is allowable.



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