Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

Fairness is what counts. Female catagory, and an Open catagory, for everybody else sounds good 👍

Back to Lia Thomas again…

It looks like the Trump administration is threatening UPenn with the loss of over a hundred million of Federal funding as a result of its policy of allowing male sex athletes to compete in the female category. That seems like overkill to me, but it's a stark illustration of the direction that things are heading in the U.S.

I feel sorry for all the Trans people who just wanted to quietly get on with living their lives who are likely to get caught up in the backlash against the more extreme end of TRA's campaigning (by which I mean insisting on access to female sex-based categories/facilities for transwomen). I'm not at all surprised that this is happening.

One thing mentioned in that article that I wasn't previously aware of is that former college swimmers from the female team are suing UPenn to have Lia Thomas' results removed from the record books.

I wish them well. Female records should be held by Female sex athletes.

LOL I think that article was written by one-eyed Jack: he's been making that argument for months now!

The slightly more sane version of this argument runs along the lines that separation by sex category is not needed as long as handicaps can be detailed enough to render sex irrelevant in terms of force. So one would pit, say, an unfit 40 year old man against a fit 14 year old girl, and since it would be a roll of the dice as to which would win, that would be "fair competition".

I think anyone who has ever trained for a sport can see what nonsense that is. And it would basically turn competitive sports into a game of chance: people don't pay a fortune to watch card games based on chance: why would they travel around the world to watch races based on the same?

Not to mention that there would always be doubts as to whether someone had won because they were genuinely faster or because the software/person setting out the handicaps had made a tiny miscalculation.

How about a third category in the required sports swimming boxing & athletics etc and all trans people can battle it out in that category or else when there is a trans person the girls all withdraw. I know i would if i had been training all year i would just pack up go home. no competitors no event so they win nothing IMHO why is it so hard to just make a third category so all the trans women could compete against each other. So we have category for goods males, weaker males & females problem solves.

That's a common enough occurrence on the CA forum in general. Some people like to make broad brush statements, throw insults/namecall, or perform some sort of guilt by association trick. If challenged they might double down for a while, before running away. I've never seen anyone admit that someone else has a better argument than them, or that their own argument is not supported by easily verifiable facts, and is in fact more akin to a religious belief.

It's kind of amusing when people come on a discussion forum and then display a marked reluctance to engage in discussion, but there are none so blind as those who will not see.

Haha, yes. The poster in this forum, who thought he knew more about what makes for a great athlete than Seb Coe, was absolutely hilarious. The levels of delusion to reach that point are mindboggling.

And speaking of Seb Coe (and possibly illustrating why TRAs have an issue with him)… World athletics, with Seb Coe at the helm, are leading the way in protecting the Female category in sports. The introduction of a basic mandatory non-invasive one-time screening test is on the way and looks like it will be ready for the Athletics World Championships. Hopefully, many other sports will follow this lead.

Another woman's career is being destroyed to placate male feelings. But only bigots could possibly object. Bigots like Martina Navratilova.

These are "Captain Obvious" studies, like the ones that show that students who do homework get better marks or that women who wear high heels a lot get more foot pain (yes those had to be proven too) - but at least in those cases nobody actually disbelieves the results. "Trust the science"? Not when it contradicts your ideology it seems.

Fair enough, and you're right that it needs to be pointed out that this doesn't only happen with the onset of puberty. But I kind of feel like it's granting too much credibility to the idea that only elite sports matter. Getting into sports when they're young, preferably well before adolescence kicks in is so important for girls.

I've nothing against pre-ados playing in mixed teams, in fact there are definite advantages in terms of acquiring skills - but anyone who thinks that there's no significant difference as girls playing against all girls has never spent much time watching children playing, whether in organised sports or just playing outside. As a parent of both, there are real differences, and from a very young age.

(Unlike actual sex categories, differences in preferences are on a spectrum, not binary, so you get boys who don't like rough-housing, and girls who do, but it's still two separate Bell curves, and they only partly overlap!)

Anyone who has lived in the world and been a child knows that boys are stronger than girls from a very young age, well before puberty.

Are there any adult males who transitioned before puberty competing against women yet though? Transitioning children is a relatively new development so we might have to wait a few years to see any in large numbers. I feel like allowing them to compete on paper is a way of saying look we are being fair to trans athletes without actually having to make any concessions. I don't think any adult male who transitioned before puberty would be in any way competitive against elite female athletes. They would be weak, stunted and possibly have issues with osteoporosis due to the effects of puberty blockers and cross sex hormones. I saw a clip a while ago, from I think it was that jazz Jennings reality show, of some trans girls in their 20s who looked 12 or 13 due to their natural growth being stopped and placed on female hormones. One apparently even uses this to their advantage on only fans 🤢 No doubt people like this will be used to say 'look at them, they don't have any advantage!' when it's not people like that who are the threat to women's sports. Not at this point anyway

You probably don't hear about trans men in sports because that doesn't fit the argument of all the posters echoing in their chambers here

Name them so

Quin is (female) Non Binary as far as I know that's how they identify - so not really trans either way.

So nothing to see here from the outside looking in. A female playing female pro football. They just happen to be openly Non Binary.

Ah come on, Gentlemanne. That can't be true. I'm not trying to disrespect you - you're the only one who made fair points in the asexual thread that got closed (and while I don't agree with all you said, at least you addressed points instead of doing what the rest of them did by just hurling out "fascist" and "hate-filled" and, bizarrely, "homophobic") but an echo chamber here doesn't mean we won't possibly hear about transmen participating in sports with/against men.