Is this enough proof?

VirginiaB · 07-04-2025 06:11PM #1

My question is whether I have enough proof for the origin of Catherine Howard, one of my great-great grandmothers. She was born in Ireland in the early 1830s, as far as I can tell. At some point in her teens or 20s, she moved to London.

—1856—The GRO cert of her first marriage in London says her father was Jeremiah Howard, "General Labor"

—1864—The marriage dispensation for her second marriage in Brooklyn NY says she was from County Limerick

—1891—Her death cert in New York says her parents were Jeremiah Howard and Mary, no maiden name given. She died in a hospital and so would have provided that information on entry.

—Griffith's Valuation has one Jeremiah Howard in Co Limerick— in Kilfinane. There are others in other counties and I know he might not have been in Griffith's at all. Nothing under Darby, Dermot etc.

—I found a number of births in Kilfinane to Jeremiah Howard (one is Darby) and Mary Tobin from 1837 to 1849. I can't find a marriage of this couple or births before 1837. The parish records begin mid-1832. I haven't read them one by one yet.

—In the last few years, I have noticed DNA descendants of this couple—Jeremiah Howard and Mary Tobin—in my Ancestry matches. Only a few above 20 cM and with trees. I have no other known ancestors from Co Limerick. The nearest is north Cork.

So that's it. Is this enough proof?

pinkypinky · 08-04-2025 12:06AM

That's looking good but I think there's a few other angles to pursue.

Have you tried the church in London for her mother's name?

I presume you've looked in other parishes for the marriage of Jeremiah and Mary? If the church records start in that parish 5 years before their first child appears there, then it's possible they moved to the area. You can cross-reference 2 surnames on John Grenham's site:

https://johngrenham.com/surnamescode/twosurnames.php?surname2=howard&surname=tobin

There's more you could do on the DNA side.

Have you validated the trees of the DNA matches?

Have you built out the descendant tree of the identified Howard/Tobin couple to see if you could target test older members?

VirginiaB · 08-04-2025 03:22PM

Thank you, Pinky, for your helpful suggestions.

Yes, I have the church marriage cert in London—no parents' names.

I have been searching rootsireland.ie for the marriage and other baptisms in any parish in Ireland. I found a Darby Howard and Mary Brien with two baptisms in 1833 and 1834 in a parish not far away—but no marriage and no other clue. I've been trying various combinations of names and a very wide date range.

I didn't fully validate the trees of the matches. Ancestry's Pro tools have been helpful in identifying more and closer matches to the line. Most seem to be descended from Hanora Howard Foley, a daughter of Jeremiah.

I should have mentioned that Catherine Howard had a lot of children so I have many matches from her line. None of them has gotten back to Jeremiah Howard tho, mostly more recent info.

The target testing is something I'd like to do but how do I ask a total stranger across the sea to give me their DNA even if I pay for it?

Again, many thanks for your good ideas.

pinkypinky · 08-04-2025 09:50PM

Asking a stranger to test is a challenge. I do it in professional cases but usually this involves appealing to people's good natures (say in the case of an adoptee who is tracing biological parents). I suppose it will depend on whether you find targets in an online or whether you identify them through another medium. All you can do is lay out the case, say you'll pay for it and hope for the best.

VirginiaB · 09-04-2025 01:39PM

Good advice. I think DNA is probably the only way forward on this. Thanks again for your good advice.

As an aside that may make you laugh or cry, I asked one of my first cousins to take a DNA test and he was quite annoyed. He thought I was questioning his parentage.

pinkypinky · 10-04-2025 08:42PM

Ha!

Is this enough proof?

Comments