Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

Is there a list of locations with bulk machines? It would definitely encourage me to shop there

AFAIK there is only one in Newcastle Co. Dublin.

Ireland's scheme is not well enough developed for the Tomra R1, the machine in Newcastle. When we get to Swedish levels, there could be a commercial case for a few of them, but it is up to each business to decide. As of January 2024 there were just 500 of them anywhere.

https://www.tomra.com/en-ie/reverse-vending/media-center/news/2024/500-tomra-r1s-installed

Yes. And if they increase the deposit as a result, thats ok, as long as the total price stays the same.

But I expect they will increase the total/product price, until the products themselves are priced out of the market.

We should also be asking why there isnt a discount in home waste collection charges, if we are forced to recycle via DRS exclusivley, or face product price rises.

The producers are not raising objections because DRS suits them in a least worst option way.

The first benefit is green washing. Re-turn and schemes like it appears to be green, but if you think about it, they really just legitimise and perpetuate single use plastic. Plastic recycling is energy intensive and recyclate must be combined with virgin plastic to work. Plastic is not good, but re-turn scheme can make it all look okay.

Second benefit is that almost all the burden of change is on other parties. Producers had a little spell where they needed to change labels, and they need to pay a small producer fee, easily recovered; other than that, it is business as usual for them Retailers meanwhile have ongoing operational, storage and hygiene challenges from RVMs, and consumers either lose money or go to the extra trouble of returning instead of recycling. Unlike the day zero challenges faced by producers, these are forever-more burdens of change borne by everyone else.

Thirdly, there will be little or no impact on sales. DRS does not change either producer or consumer behaviour, people generally either get on with the new process, or accept the small cost of not engaging. Virtually no one says, "I won't buy that Coke / have that beer because of the deposit".

Finally, imagine any government measure that would properly reduce plastic, and ultimately end plastic containers, these would be truly devastating for producers and they will be happy to avoid:

1. Ban plastic containers in full

2. Ban plastic use for small volume / single use

3. Punative producer levy on plastic

4. Punative consumer levy on plastic

While adjusting to measures like the above would obviously also impact consumers and retail, but vs DRS these would be considerably more imposing on producers.

Agreed. I was responding to the post about significant product price rise. A can of coke goes from 1.15 euro to 2.15 euro, with a 1.15 deposit.

There will be a price point where consumers stop purchasing. In the short term, I expect the DRS deposit will go up to 20c. But who knows.

I know we are sometimes exhorted to indulge in Blue Sky Thinking. But we have entered the world of the absurd here.

A 3 or 4 euro deposit will be required to change peoples behavior. Won't happen though, The producers would be up in arms………..

Anyone thinking the system here is the "most anti consumer" one has clearly never used many, or any, other ones.

The German one where certain containers can only be returned to certain shops is a clusterfuck and has seriously damaged the use of reusable glass (they include glass) containers - as you need to bring them back to the right place.

Why couldn't you? If they are serious about hitting those collection targets (which they aren't) you'd have no issues with people jumping through hoops for their 4 euro back.

It would also force the actual producers (those that make the money from the product being sold) to serious consider better ways of distributing their products…………which ultimately needs to happen is there's any levl of seriousness about the RRR process.

If a can of coke costs 1.15 today, people arent going to pay 5.15 for a can of coke tomorrow.

Adding 4 euro to the cost is not adding a deposit, it is increasing the price of the product to 5.15, with the option to reclaim 4.15 of your purchase, at your own time and effort.

Net result is people just wont buy the product.

Why do you want to keep the container?

You won't buy the product until the product makes sense to buy.

The producers will have to come up with a more environmentally friendly way of distribution.

Everyone wins..particularly our future generations.

I don't see any difference between it and the current scheme only that it forces producers and distributors to do something about the issue rather than force it all back on the consumer will no effect on the reducing or reusing parts of the RRR.

We will see advances in home recycling. If you mix non recyclables with recyclables, the waste companies will fine you.

Better that we recycle from home and dont waste time and emissions driving to bespoke recycling centres that are nowhere near when we live.

I dont know about you, but i have better things to be doing with an hour on a sunday that queue up at a machine for a couple of euro, when I can far more efficiently recycle from home.

I’ve yet to queue for more than 2 minutes at a machine, I doubt anybody has ever queued for an hour at a machine and I doubt you can prove this claim.