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Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    That's bullsh1t logic purely designed to blame an innocent child! I could also suggest that if there wasn't kids there'd be no teacher but it is an "if" just like your "if" and in terms of this discussion, completely irrelevant!

    The fact of the matter (and we are discussing facts here) is that Burke harassed his principal publicly and because of this behaviour lost his job. He has since ignored court orders to stay away which is why he spent time in prison.

    Burke taking a stance against whatever belief he holds has nothing to do with his sacking. His sacking happened because he protested in an unacceptable manner within a workplace. You creating hypothetical scenarios is meaningless because they had nothing to do with the sacking. He could have protested in an acceptable manner and still had a job but being the intelligent and articulate man he is, his behaviour was a deliberate choice orchestrated to create as much publicity as possible (in such the same way he could have purged his contempt for the court and walked out of prison).

    Much like his sisters job in Arthur Cox finished in a public display, his behaviour was intentional so he and his family will get more blinkered idiots to support him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,267 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    What I don’t accept is the assertion that the child “has nothing to do with events”. There is a connection, albeit indirect. If there was no child, there would no decision. If there was no decision, there would be no reaction.

    "Your honour, the victim had too much to drink and clearly doesn't remember consenting."

    "If she didn't want the attention she shouldn't have been wearing such provocative clothing!"

    "What did they expect, being out in that area after dark."

    Take your victim-blaming back to the 1970s, where it belongs. The child in this case doesn't need to justify their existence to you or to Burke.

    ===
    boards.ie default cookie settings now include "legitimate interest" for >200 companies, unless you specifically opted out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Maybe we should get rid of roads and then there wouldn't be car accidents. It's pretty lame that you are using the existence of the child at the school as justification for Burkes intolerance. Maybe instead Burke should have left the school if he wasn't happy? Of course that wouldn't even enter your blinkered thinking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    The teenager should shoulder blame for being transgender? That's pretty idiotic..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Suckler


    I accept the reason why the school got rid of him - because of his reaction to their decision.

    Again, not quite accurate.

    They hadn't reached a decision. They were open to finding alternate ways to find a solution with Enoch, except that wasn't acceptable for Enoch; he wanted his way immediately without further discussion on the matter. When that was explained to him, he decided to take a 'different' course of action that saw him relieved of his duties. In true Burke family circus tradition, the willingness and/or ability to listen to other voices and seek some sort of compromise was not on the table.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Why should the child shoulder any blame simply for being who they are ?!?!?



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 56,512 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Mod: New Scottman is taking another holiday from the forum no need to respond to them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,184 ✭✭✭✭thesandeman


    I see McGregor has turned up now and has been granted an audience with Mr President. That's really going to piss off the Burkes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,171 ✭✭✭Comhrá


    It's also going to p**s off most decent Irish people as well as the Burkes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭Ezeoul




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,918 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Are they still in Washington ready for round 2?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 273 ✭✭Fotish


    I don’t see why the school had to make any decision at all!


    if the child wanted to be trans or whatever, let them get on with it, what business is it of the school ?

    Does every organisation, sports club, or group that the child is affiliated too have to send out instructions to all their members because a child has made a decision in their private life ?

    By getting involved the school is forcing the issue when their is no need to do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,695 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    It should be obvious- as the student spends so much time in a school environment, they requested that staff and other students address them as they/them when talking to them.

    I'm sure if that student was in sport's club, the same request would have been made too.

    To thine own self be true



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    But the students parents said they or the student never made the request for they or them. Just that the student be called by their new name. The school added the they or them to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Schools literally act as the guardians of the students when in their care. So it's a pretty good sign of parents when they make the school aware of such a scenario so the school can provide any supports that are needed. It's standard and but remotely outside of the norm.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Correction. The school asked the student during the course of their meeting with them and their parent, if the student would also like to be referred too by gender neutral pronouns, and they said yes.

    The school didn't force a change of pronouns on them.

    It looks like we're back to explaining the basics of this case again!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Suckler


    This is up there with the most idiotic thoughts of 2025.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 552 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,638 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Do you have a link to that? Specifically the 'would like to be referred to by gender neutral pronouns' rather than 'agreed to be referred to ...'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    The details of the conversation that took place between the student, their parent and WHS was part of Principal Niamh McShane's testimony at the High Court back in March 2023.

    Apologies, that is incorrect. It was part of an affidavit given by Principal Frank Milling.

    You can go look for it if you wish > some of the details are here.

    “The student was clear that they did not want to use their previous gender-specific pronouns and all, including the parent, agreed that ‘they/them’ would be used going forward in the school.”



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    It was my impression they didn't. But I'm sure there's truth on both sides of the argument. Im not standing up for Burkes actions, just not totally believing the school version of events either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,684 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    The issue is that Burke doesn't care about the school's version of events anyway. As soon as anything to do with transgenderism was in the school, it put him on a collision course with the school, because he has to actively oppose it for his religious beliefs and his performative family who look for things like this to protest.

    People say Burke, the school and the child and/or their parents should have sat down when this came up and worked on some sort of compromise. Burke never would have compromised. They literally can't. If it's against their beliefs, it's entirely wrong and cannot ever be accepted.

    It could very well be a case that the school was being overly-cautious in trying to make sure they weren't going to be breaking any discrimination laws in relation to the student and maybe jumped the gun a bit or gave directives they didn't need to give, but it's irrelevant. Once that student revealed their preferences, Burke jumped on the opportunity to proselytise his beliefs and make a protest over it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    Yea, fair enough and agreed. In the beginning I didn't really take notice of the case as such, so maybe I'm guilty of not being fully informed. As the actions of Enoch and his family became notorious I realised that basically we have a family of religious nuts with no regard for anything or anyone else except their own views. Total disregard for the law and court system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 273 ✭✭Fotish


    Here is a quote from the parents email….

    “However, the parent said in the email to Mr Milling they wished to be clear that the purpose of the meeting was to “re-engage [their child] back to school”. The parent also said that while the child had requested to go by a new name, “the they/them pronoun came from Wilson’s” and there was no principal or deputy principal at the meeting.”

    also …

    “In an email to the school’s principal in January, the parent said they only learned “the child in question is my child” after reading a court judgment which outlined what year the unidentified student was in.“The school did not inform me and I feel now that there’s a safety concern for my family. This whole situation could have been avoided,” the parent wrote.The parent also said their child had never requested they be called by the “they/them pronoun”.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,684 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    And that's largely what the Burke's have capitalised on; that a lot of people don't know about the underlying situation, because even the media barely mention it. They have all instead framed it as Enoch being jailed for his beliefs about transgenderism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭Ezeoul




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    They/them or transgenderism have nothing to do with why Burke went to prison so lets stop with all that discussion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Parent's email. Singular.

    Presumably the one who wasn't in attendance at the meeting with the school.

    Read all the way to the end of the article. The affidavits to the court are on record, including who was in attendance.

    This is all old ground. I really see no need to go over all this again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    So it's not true? I see it quoted above also, so maybe it's not all gript. If it's not a factual report perhaps you can rebuff it? It's actually a pick up from the independent, but due to paywall I couldn't read it there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 630 ✭✭✭juno10353


    Agreed. Mr Burke was suspended from school for the same sort of carry-on shown by his family in America and here in Ireland.

    He was imprisoned for not agreeing to obey court order to remain away from school premises. Agreeing to court order would have allowed him immediate exit

    The garnishing of his wages (which school still pays while suspended) is for courts to recoup unpaid fines accrued during this dabacle



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