Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

Just back from a 4 mile round trip to dunnes which, as usual was out of order, I felt like putting my foot through it, then onto aldi breaking every speed limit in road rage to get a paper receipt for less than €7.

F..k ossian smyth

Not sure how true this is but the Government turned down and alternative return scheme.

The IWMA is giving out about the fleet of vehicles used by Re-Turn, and their effect on the carbon footprint. But their dozens of members have no problem running multiple vehicles into our estates, where one would do the job better.

https://iwma.ie/about-us/list-of-iwma-members/

The last thing householders need is another bin. Especially one fitted with technology holding their personal data, and linked to financial institutions. How much profit would the waste companies and the banks make out of this scheme?

What plans did the IWMA put to government for giving the refunds to apartment dwellers, where there is a communal bin?

South Dublin Guidelines for Waste Storage Facilities Standards for Apartments

The requirements set out in this Plan for the collection, Storage and Presentation of Household Waste and the requirement to segregate waste into separate fractions to facilitate the collection of dry recyclables, organic kitchen/garden waste and residual waste. Bins that comply with IS EN 840 1997 must be used. Ideally 1,100 Litre Bins should be used with dimension of 1.3 metres long by 1.0 metres wide by 1.3 metres high and with a load capacity of approximately 0.5 tonnes. Other types of receptacles may only be used with the written consent of the Local Authority. There must be enough storage space for a minimum of 1No. 1,100 Litre Bin per 15 people availing of the communal collection scheme for residual household waste.

Sufficient space must be provided to accommodate the collection of dry recyclables and organic kitchen waste/garden waste. Provision should also be made for the collection of glass (separated by colour) in Bottle Banks within the cartilage of the apartment block. The total footprint of each of these banks is 4 metres by 2 metres wide. The location must be external, with sufficient access and clearance for servicing using a crane.The bin storage areas must not be on the public street and should not be visible or accessible to the general public. The bin storage areas should be designed so that each bin within the storage area is accessible to occupants of the apartment block (including people with disabilities).

Suitable waste water drainage points should be installed in the bin storage area for cleaning and disinfecting purposes. If the waste is collected by a private contractor, that contractor must be the holder of a current Waste Collection Permit. Sufficient access and egress must be provided to enable bins to be moved easily form the storage area to an appropriate collection point on the public street nearby. The access and egress area should have no steps and have a minimal incline ramp. Where a bye law is in place regarding waste presentation in the Local Authority, this must be adhered to in the development of suitable waste storage areas.

How is the €80 million figure calculated?

What kitty is that? If someone brings back 10 containers from January tomorrow, will the kitty pay out?

Its in the article. Unique codes. Will only allow you to scan it once.

Bit like the return scheme then

On the proposed digital scheme -

As already pointed out above, if it was introduced, there'd be an immediate outcry about "what about all the old people and others who don't have smartphones, who aren't comfortable using an app, and who might not even have a bank account for refunds to be paid into?" (and @LambshankRedemption - you don't need to watch GAA yourself to know there's been controversy over some matches only being available online, and people asking "what about those who haven't the means or know-how to watch them online?")

Another glaring pitfall is that there'd be absolutely no guarantee that returnable containers would actually be placed in the green bin at all.

The only thing that scanning a code on the container and a QR code on your green bin would show is that you were standing beside the green bin when you scanned the container.

You could still throw the container in your black bin instead. Or even cut the code off it so that it couldn't be traced back to you, and then litter it somewhere out of pure spite.

Interesting fact about glass, over 90% of it gets returned despite having zero deposit. The Irish system jumped in head-first thinking that a deposit of 15c or 25c during a period of hyper inflation and already ridiculous prices for some goods would entice people to return their bottles or cans.

Fact is that most people didn't even feel that price increase when it came in. A small price to pay for not having to queue behind somebody with bin bags full of stuff for re-turning at machines that reject one in every 5 things put into it.

Remove the deposit, have simple bins for returning the in-scope products like you have for bottles and I think you'd improve re-turn rates and people would generally be much happier

Bought a Poland Coca-Cola which had a small english-language nutritional sticker and R logo, was charged 15c. Sticker says imported into Ireland by Tempside Ltd Dublin 22. A number of RVMs rejected it, and the barcode is not valid on Re-turn website.

Is there a diddle with this, where a small rectangular sticker is attached and the seller pockets the 15c?

Their submission during the consultation period gave details of a "trial" they did of this. It was absolutely awful and it had to be rejected. It had the quality of a Young Scientist project - and I don't mean a winner.

That trial seems to be the entire extent of their "tried and tested elsewhere" claim, although I don't see how they can claim a housing estate in Ireland is "elsewhere".

It was an utter mess. The results weren't scientifically valid as it massively incentivised return as the trial return products were sold to the participants below cost as well as having a deposit, and you couldn't get money back unless you had a bin account, so basically only one person per household could get the deposit.

The "unique code per item" to stop people just claiming they deposited back 1000x cans when it was 1 was tacked on later and would make the administration many, many times more complicated and still be open to fraud

There's been a billion containers returned so well over a billion sold, your unique code is going to have to be veeeery big; and need to be cryptographically hashed to stop people just generating, and using up, codes to get the refunds.

It was a desperate last-gasp attempt to hold on to the aluminium recycling stream; one I hope they didn't pay the person who devised it very much for!

From a consumer perspective, it would be bloody awful too. Scanning a unique code, which would have to be decrypted and cross referenced to stop fraud, then scanning the bin you're putting it on, on a mobile phone could easily take 10+ seconds per item. Refunded to your bin account, so you don't actually get the money back quickly, if ever - you just don't have to pay as much for your bin bill.

Remember a few months ago some of the return scheme champions on here were adamant that the scheme had no impact on inflation?

I was cleaning out a cupboard and found an old receipt from the end of 2023 with a 24 pack of pepsi max cans (an extinct species now) for €12 from Dunnes.

After this scheme came out the most you could get were 18 cans I believe, and you're lucky to get below €14 for that.

It's well above the general rate of inflation

Same old. 330 ml

I'm actually really surprised they've not been shrunk down to 300 yet

So, 89% inflation in 15 months at shelf price (€17 for 18 cans), or only 11% inflation in 15 months at Club card offer.

The latest figures are in the CPI for February. Soft drinks up 2.4% for the 12 months. Spring and mineral waters up 4.7%. Biggest increases in Butter 11.8%, Milk 12.8% and Chocolate 13.7%. I can point to items in DRS which have come down since it was introduced. But I do not claim that the reduction is connected to DRS.