Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

I do for the following reasons,

Why play him out of position when his province has never played him anywhere outside of 10. Publicly show him up as a bad player?

Refuse to sub Prendegast for 3 matches in a row eventhough he's playing average or indeed poorly in all 3. Extraordinary arrogance by the mgmt!

A huge sway of Leinster public refusing to say Sam played badly after Cardiff eventhough he was falling off tackles. I was there.

Public, toxic bullying of a player in my opinion. Damage done to Sam for overplaying him and to Crowley for not giving him any gametime in his preferred position.

Easterby has been an utter failure in people mgmt and we can be thankful that Andy Farrell is the complete opposite

What a pity the likes of Pope and Hook are gone. By God would they call out as it should be

Couple of corrections: Crowley has played at 12 and 15 for Munster. Farrell is the one who started selecting Prendergast over Crowley so not sure why you’re describing Easterby an ‘utter failure’ in people management. Actually some ‘fans’ were using this bizarre bullying argument against Farrell 5 months ago when he picked Prendergast for the Australia game.

Oh give it a bloody rest.

We lost, physically dominated. End of. Very few players held their hands up, it was that sort of game, it happens.

Only question now. From 1 - 23, what do you change for next week, if any. More than just a Fly half discussion

And I don’t really agree with that either. Frawley was never going to the the winning of that game. And I would have no issue with SAM having been replaced by Crowley yesterday. But Bundee needed to be replaced more.

Question, Should Ireland make changes for Italy. Should some fringe players get gametime, if we are really about building our squad. Should Aherne, Coombes, Hodnett, Crowley all come into the mix. Pity Casey is injured, he would have come in at 9. What do we benefit from putting out a similar team next weekend. Give Osbourne a game at centre with ringrose. Give Beirne a weekend off for once..and porter

I’m not a fan of 6-2 for us. I don’t think Baird coming on for VDF was going to be a difference maker. We needed somebody more destructive at the breakdown.
And I also would have liked to see more of Crowley at OH over the tournament. But selection decisions and cards went against him.

Honest question. Do people genuinely believe that Munster fans wouldn't rally behind Prendergast if he was playing at a genuinely world class level? Sheahan, Lowe, Doris, etc have long been accepted as one of our own players in green since they broke out on the scene (some minor teething issues with Lowe's defence aside). Do people genuinely think that we wouldn't do the same for Sam if he was actually playing to a decent standard?

Admittedly, there were a good few inflammatory comments in the match thread and I completely understand the defensiveness around those - I'd be the first person to call them out if they were directed at a Munster player and I'll wholeheartedly admit to that. This muck-tier posting like "ugh he's stinking the place out" and "take him off (after twenty minutes)" and that sort of lark just offers nothing and is designed solely to piss people off, so I've no issue with people calling that out.

However, I also think that some legitimate concerns and doubts from our higher quality posters have been quickly shut down as "Oh, the Munster fans are having a go at him again" and "They're mad that Crowley isn't the man" - when in reality they have an honestly held good faith opinion that Sam just isn't playing that well.

I think there is a decent discussion to be had if it's treated with the right respect - but that comes from both sides. The pro-Sam party have to be open to other opinion once it is well founded, while the anti-Sam party have to not devolve into inflammatory hyperbole. The chances of us actually getting that - probably very little, but it's worth hoping for.

I think it would take a whole season of Sam tearing it up with consistent 10 out of 10 performances for that to be the case. He was never going to be perfect this tournament. He is too young and inexperienced and the step in intensity from provincial to international level was always going to be a learning curve for him to adapt to.

But there are a cohort of posters who refuse to admit that he has any positive aspects to his game. Offensively he has been very good this tournament. Defensively he has been poor.

France's breakdown work and linespeed left no options for Sam or JGP to play good passes. Jack may well have been better suited to the game as he would have survived contact better. But I think it would have just ended up with Jack at the bottom of rucks more often and wouldn't really have changed the game in a meaningful way.

Sometimes it is hard to see the legitimate posters from the trolls. I have no issue with people preferring Crowley. It is a valid take. But Sam was not the reason for the defeat against France and was surrounded by players not playing well. It was an entire team failure and some posters are trying to make him the scapegoat. Which I am pushing back against.

If Lowe, Hansen, Ringrose were all available and Bundee didn't get a kick in the head. And we didn't give up 2 yellow cards it could have been a completely different game. If all you are changing is Jack instead of Sam it would have been the same game.

I'd thank this post twice if I could. Genuinely thoughtful. Some responses, if I may.

Do people genuinely believe that Munster fans wouldn't rally behind Prendergast if he was playing at a genuinely world class level? 

In fairness, "world class level" is a big ask for a young guy in his first 6N and I don't think too many people would say he's been at that level at all, I certainly wouldn't. He's had some outstanding moments, some absolutely shocking moments, but on the whole it's been a successful enough experiment. I don't agree that he isn't playing to a decent standard, "decent" is exactly the word I'd apply to his 6N.

On the flip side, Crowley is not world class either and has not been playing at his best, so there was an opening for someone to come in.

Sheahan, Lowe, Doris, etc have long been accepted as one of our own players in green since they broke out on the scene

It's slightly more nuanced because not only is Prendergast seen as the embodiment of Leinster bias, media influence, etc, his selection is coming at the expense of the first Munster-developed player to become first-choice for Ireland in over a decade. Sheahan forced out Kelleher and Herring, Lowe took Stockdale's spot, Doris arrived right as Stander was retiring, so for Munster fans each of those was a wash. This is a straight Leinster-for-Munster swap. That's my amateur psychology take on it.

For most fans, getting their province's guys into the national team is a big deal, of course it is. You can see how unhappy people were that Hansen was brought back in over Nash despite some sketchy form, and then again with Osborne, but out-half is the key position and having your guy there is massive, and now that is at risk.

when in reality they have an honestly held good faith opinion that Sam just isn't playing that well.

That's absolutely fine, but it's the internet, the middle of the road opinion tends to get drowned out by the more triggering opinions. I'm as guilty as anyone of over-reacting to bonkers takes like "this is public bullying of Crowley" or "Sexton is calling the shots here". Equally, people on the pro-Sam side have made way too much of "that" spiral kick and some of his long passes, exquisite as they might look in slow-mo.

It's really unfortunate that we're in a Lions year and this adds a whole other dimension to the arguments. It would probably be a lot better if we were talking about who'd have the jersey for the tour to Argentina.