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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,977 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Hickie used to come in off his wing all the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    bit like the cover for 7, let's move our best 8 out of position if Vdf gets injured.

    They clearly don't care about numbers on backs. It's pretty clear that if VDF gets injured, they'd rather see <7. Doris 8. Conan> than <7. Timoney/Hodnett/Whoever 8. Doris>.

    And tbh, the idea that a seven has to be a short squat lad and the 6 has to be a big tall guy is a bit obsolete, so why not?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    Hard treatment and deliberately injuring someone is very different. If you think France aren’t planning the exact same for Prendergast tomorrow you’re delusional.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Hickie was an incredible player. I always felt Conway was an excellent winger for us, scored tries, speed and did loads off the ball. Late bloomer though, and only ended up with about 20 caps iirc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭hawley


    If you're trying to get someone off the pitch very early, it means that you're intent on injuring him.

    Communication was the greatest fatality



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    My, badly articulated point, is that an underage team consists of 15 back row players (an exaggeration on my part, I know). This ensures back rows are the biggest pool of players that remain in the sport.

    Underage rugby - like underage soccer, underage GAA, underage other sports - consigns kids to the scraphead at far too young an age. Just so coaches can prove how great they are by winning trophies with their kids teams. A child's progress within their chosen sport shouldn't be dependent on the lottery of when they start physically maturing.

    All sports pay lip service to inclusivity. Their objective should be to have kids playing into adulthood. But it's all about winning every available underage trophy. The head scratching that ensues when they can't field an adult team would be comical of it weren't so disappointing.

    /Rant over 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭PMC83


    Not the case at all and pretty standard stuff. Tens are always targeted, big runners sent at them, force them to make big tackles again and again,wear them down and fatigue them to the point where they are making silly mistake and need to be pulled.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    Ross Tucker a science and research consultant for World Rugby, had a very interesting podcast on player development about 12 months ago.

    He wasn't making your back row argument, but he did make a compelling argument that the current system common in all sports was confining nearly all late developers to the scrap heap. The younger that age group is picked for "elite/development squad" the worse the problem is. The top 20% in a group of kids at 14 will be a very different group at 18 if they are exposed to the same training inputs.

    I'll have another search later, but can't find it currently



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭cmyk


    I was at a really interesting presentation by Des Ryan last year. He was head of S&C with Arsenal youth academy. The talk was on ‘biological maturation’ or basically how they measure and predict the different rates of youth development.

    It’s especially important in soccer as a lot of these players are often sold or bought based on these formulas and it’s viewed through a business lens as well as a performance one. Rugby could probably learn a lot from how far ahead they are. It was fascinating so I’d love to hear that podcast and see if there’s much overlap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    I assume you have never played the game at any level. Not the case at all. 10s and playmakers in general will always be targeted for rough treatment, even at J3/4 level.



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  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,621 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Hoping that we can build from this tournament, towards the WC. 2 years to bring in players with pace and power to challenge at the top end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,621 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I'd like to see Osborne get a run at 12 vs Italy. Our midfield has been pretty blunt in attack for awhile, we're not making breaks very often, none of Aki, Henshaw or Ringrose are particularly good distributors.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    If lowe is out for Italy I'd like see TOB get a chance. He's the one winger we have with out and out pace, and has managed to put a few appearances together and stayed intact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,367 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    It's not just that Henshaw can be an iffy distributor, I also think he looked slow out there today.

    I was shocked that he cut back on the inside when he had a one on one on the wing against a 22 stone lock forward. Take him outside and you're scoring a try. We were looking at a changing of the guard with Healy, Murray and POM going. We might need to accelerate our plans for 12/13 as well.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,840 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He's also not a winger, but not sure who can come in there. Nash did nothing to suggest that leaving him out originally was the wrong call. I think he could really provide a bit of spice to the centres though.

    It seems a bit weird after a match where our forwards were clearly out-powered to be talking about the backline, but it feels like they never gave the forwards an option to move it out. All a bit one-paced.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,840 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yeah, that struck me as particularly poor at the time.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Aki is 35 next month, he's in his twilight.

    While 12 is an issue, we have depth available with Osbourne, and possibly postlewaith and forde as well if they progress.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,840 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm not overly worried about the centres. Osborne plus postlewaith/forde/cooney will be decent enough, with Ringrose still around for a few years.

    Our wings though…



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Yep, big problems when lowe eventually finishes. We've no x factor coming up really. Hansen isn't fast but has the playmaking ability. TOB has pace and dog, Daly and Nash aren't really at the level unfortunately, Bolton is being groomed as the next lowe but hasn't yet shown he's test level. I have great hopes for kilgallon. Ulster is a graveyard for wingers unfortunately.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,621 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I'd like to see Baloucoune brought back in, if he's healthy. He looked good vs SA when he got a chance, then he was cast back into exile. JOB is another decent possibility, he has pace and good skills with the ball.

    I'm not overly concerned about power. We've blown away those French players in the past. That's an execution issue for me, rather than a fundamental weakness. We had them out on their feet at half time, if we hadn't killed ourselves with the 2 yellows, I think that would've paid dividends for us.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,840 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I've only seen 2 or 3 games from Bolton, but I do like the look of him. I don't think he's a new Lowe, but he is fast and strong. Probably a more traditional wing but with more heft. Good prospect anyway.

    TOB could be excellent but I simply don't trust him to stay fit. Nash is fine, but just not at the level required. It was noticeable missing both Lowe and Hansen today just how mediocre our game looked when the ball went wide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    Henry McErlean has the X factor & unpredictability, always said it , but it’s hard to grasp until you see it on match day . Same for Reuben ex Rock player , super talented



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 597 ✭✭✭Piskin


    Need to trawl the south sea's again for player's. We have to face the fact we are nowhere without them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 597 ✭✭✭Piskin




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,977 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I'm continually baffled by the appointment of Goodman. The two times Ireland have faced top four teams under him - NZ in November and France today - the attack has floundered. Top quality opposition just shuts it down without much difficulty. Scoring the second and third tries today is hardly a good reflection as France had quit playing because they were so far ahead. Why anyone would look at Leinster struggling in very much the same manner to break down Toulouse and the Bulls last season and think 'Yesss, we need some of that for our team' is beyond me. Goodman getting that gig is the definition of failing upwards.

    The defence is a fair way short of where it needs to be too. 34 points conceded in the 2nd half isn't far off the scoring rate France had for 80 minutes against Italy. Although the 7 points from the interception can be put down more to Ireland's poor attack.

    Chastening defeat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 243 ✭✭Juventu4


    We still have 2 years to build for thr RWC, main points going forward:

    Ireland needs a kick up the whole with selection, Healy, Murray and POM should have been moved on especially after the Autumn series. Hodneet, McNabney, Ahern, Soroka need to he brought into the squad as it needs more youthful power and bite.

    Osborne is not a winger, he can be a top class fullback and centre so play him in position.

    Boyle needs to be in the starting 23 for loosehead prop, he can scrum and can carry powerfully.

    This is a whole system/genetic issue but Ireland struggles to produce athletic backs at the top end compared to other teams.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,292 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    seeding for the next world cup will be pre-2026 6 nations?

    then we need to experiment like lunatics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭SaoPaulo41


    Why do we rarely have players with top end speed . We looks so slow . The last truely fast player was Denis Hickie .

    Separately James Ryan needs to start ahead of Joe McCarthy next week.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,367 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Baloucoune has, or at least had top end pace. But he's a player that never really kicked on from his initial promise. He's 27 now and it feels like his development has completely stalled.



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