€26bn in Climate Fines - why can't Ireland start All Ireland Rail plan, cycle lanes, paths etc NOW?

spot555 · 04-03-2025 09:44AM #1

It amazes me that the looming threat of €26bn in climate fines hasn't sharpened minds or focus in the Dail to kick off implementing the full all ireland rail plan now, make as many towns and cities across the country as public transport, cycle and pedestrian friendly as possible and build great public transport, cycle and walking links both inside towns/cities and between towns and cities. Even if stormont cant fund the NI part of the rail plan, let the Irish Govt fund it, they'll be spending it anyways in 10-20years if country re-unites, so just speed up the inevitable process and start building now. Ignore the NIMBYs, have ambition and build like out the planned network now. Build our cities cycle lanes and pedestrianise like mad to have the next Copenhagen or Amsterdam-like cities in all of our major cities and towns. Would be the greatest investment to tackle climate, improve peoples health and well-being and an investment in all ireland tourism & trade making everyone and everywhere interconnected and easy to get around in a more climate friendly and people-focused way.

L1011 · 04-03-2025 09:48AM

Our planning process is so slow that something started now would likely be beginning construction in 2030 at best.

Question is why wasn't it started in 2017/8 when there was finally money again; or pre 2007

cgcsb · 04-03-2025 09:54AM

If governments can't even take housing and health seriously, how can they take climate change seriously.

Mr. teddywinkles · 04-03-2025 09:58AM

There goes the apple money. Great setup.

Maybe they can create more e ngos to lecture us some more instead of actually investing in our energy and public infrastructure

Wanderer78 · 04-03-2025 10:04AM

…theres nothing shocking here op, this was always gonna happen, we have significantly curtailed our states ability in addressing our most critical of issues, including housing, health care, infrastructure etc etc, to the point, virtually nothing is happening in regards these issues, that figure could be 26 trillion, and nothing would happen, sorry to inform you but your kids, grand kids, nieces and nephews are probably screwed!

Seth Brundle · 04-03-2025 10:40AM

Politicians tend to not want to touch anything that will upset their electorate. Hence why BusConnects was opposed by many politicians (quite often over ill-informed matters). Politicians don't want the hassle of having to reallocate road space over to cycle lanes. Simply put, none of them really are short term vote winners. Sure, even when the Greens were booted out of government (to rejoycing from many), there was widespread welcome at the anticipation of new roads getting built and even some suggesting removing some of the Active Travel measures that had been constructed over the last 5 years.

We will, no doubt, commit to some token measures but on the whole we will quietly be happy that our convenience is left undisturbed and will listen to commentators asking "what about China" or "I need to drive because something something public transport".
Nero fiddled while Rome burned!

Cookiemunster · 04-03-2025 11:33AM

Did nobody actually read any further than the headline? The fine could be anywhere between €8bn and €26bn if the government don't do anything.

If they complete the already committed to projects then if could be between €3bn and €12bn.

You'd swear nothing was actually being done or that our emissions weren't already on a downward trend.

We have huge carbon reduction projects underway that will be completed by 2030.

BusConnects and the roll out of a national fleet of hybrid or fully electric buses.

Dart+ and a massive fleet of new electric trains. Cork Area Commuter Rail.

The PfG commits to further changes above what has already been promised. Including extra money for active travel and greenway projects. A massive increase in the numbers of EV charging points to stay ahead of demand. Increases in incentives to EV grants.

Eirgrid are committed to 80% renewable capacity by 2030 and there are enough renewable projects in planning to achieve that 80%.

We will miss the target (as will pretty much every other EU country), but we won't be paying anywhere near €26bn in fines.

marno21 · 04-03-2025 11:51AM

These fines are not going to happen. They are a relic from the rules based international order era when Europe could focus on this kind of stuff instead of the serious business of governing. The world has changed in recent months and hard priorities will put an end to them.

Of course, the PfG is very committed to lots of environmentally friendly projects and will remain so as @Cookiemunster points out. Since Darragh O'Brien has come to office, we've seen tangible progress in 2 major projects in Cork, and I have no doubt that when DART and Metro projects come out of the planning mire they will continue apace. Perhaps he can focus his attention on the grid gridlock to open up more renewable opportunities also.

ELM327 · 04-03-2025 12:05PM

By the time these fines are due, there could be international conflict in the EU lands, I doubt there would be the appetite for these fines. Likely kick the can down the road.

cgcsb · 04-03-2025 12:11PM

Also a very good point. No country is going to meet their targets. Priority has shifted. Climate is taking a back seat in politics for now. Although we are slowly making progress, 2040 might be more realistic for 2030 targets. There are new more immediate concerns.

The only way to avert a complete take over of far right politics at this point is to give the people some action on immigration and housing. Housing is now a Europe-wide disaster, and islamisation has become a real threat to day to day stability.

We may well soon be fighting a tarrif war with the USA and a cyber war with Russia. Which complicates matters further.

Putin may even get suicidal as he ages and decide he wants a hot war with Europe. Technology may make defeating the Russian army fairly easy but then what to do with what remains of Russia will be a headache for generations.

NIMAN · 04-03-2025 12:14PM

Most Political systems work on short term ism.

They don't want to make any hard decisions incase it loses them a vote.

Kick the can down the road, like we always do.

csirl · 04-03-2025 01:19PM

Who gets the fine money and what do they do with it?

spot555 · 04-03-2025 01:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123230241#Comment_123230241

Appreciate the major investments in Dublin & Cork, living in the northern half of the country I suppose it's just a bit frustrating, it feels like the government doesn't really give a toss about infrastructure for the top half of the island , no urgency for proper investment in public transport, cycle lane infrastructure, pedestrianisation etc inside towns and cities (excl. greenways) for Sligo, Cavan, Donegal, Monaghan, Tyrone, Armagh etc. (Appreciate NI is diff. jurisdiction but nothing stopping Irish Govt. investing seriously in cross border public transport outside Dublin-Belfast line). Essentially relying on buses for the next 20-30 years, same ding dong from Bus Eireann, buses being an hour or two late, unreliable etc.

But do agree with other posters also, the urgency just doesn't seem to be there for both existing & possible future projects in the pipeline unfortunately.

KrisW1001 · 04-03-2025 02:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123230607#Comment_123230607

The EU, and, like all EU contributions, it is ultimately given back to the various member states. Yes, we would get some of it back.

DarkJager21 · 04-03-2025 02:04PM

The logical thing would be to simply withdraw Ireland from these agreements, failing that just ignore any attempt at such a fine as a symbolic rather than a real bill to be paid. There is absolutely no point in continuing climate agreements or beating ourselves back to the stone age to reduce miniscule pollution compared to others (like the US) who no longer give a ****.

We can be Ireland the good boys (and broke regardless of what we attempt) or put our balls on and tell them to shove these threats of fines up their hole. We can look at the climate issue when sanity and grown ups return to running the world.

thegame983 · 04-03-2025 02:07PM

They want to be fined. It means they get to hand over taxpayer money to vested interests.

Seth Brundle · 04-03-2025 02:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123230843#Comment_123230843

What vested interests?

StormForce13 · 04-03-2025 05:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123230843#Comment_123230843

As a vested interest myself, I'm always delighted to receive more "taxpayer money"!

So I'm pleasantly surprised to read that "they" (whoever they may be) are planning to give me even more moolah in 2030, so sincere thanks for your insider information - which I assume comes from a reputable source - about that.

Zebra3 · 05-03-2025 06:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123230827#Comment_123230827

Simply withdraw.

Beating ourselves back to the Stone Age.

The latter won’t be happening either way, the former shows a complete and utter embarrassing misunderstanding of how the real world works.

Seth Brundle · 05-03-2025 06:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123234809#Comment_123234809

Well said - I too support the argument that if we ignore the facts about climate change, it will simply go away!

Flinty997 · 05-03-2025 06:35PM

People have short memories...

https://www.rte.ie/archives/2018/1022/1005890-smog-in-dublin/

Mr. teddywinkles · 06-03-2025 07:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123234831#Comment_123234831

Man made?

marno21 · 06-03-2025 09:53AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123234831#Comment_123234831

There's a difference between ignoring the facts about climate change and ignoring the facts about the impact removing c. 0.1% of global emissions will have on climate change.

The world we've entered in the last 6/7 weeks is not conducive to handicapping already struggling economies in the name of virtue signalling.

Podge_irl · 06-03-2025 10:02AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123236780#Comment_123236780

Europe is not 0.1% of emissions and if Europe is to tackle that it means everyone doing it equally and fairly.

PlatformNine · 06-03-2025 10:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123234901#Comment_123234901

It's a shame really, in general I think people tend to forget about local emissions/pollution. A lot of people focus so much on global emissions/pollution as an excuse not to improve, but forget about the health risks of local emissions.

The study below really shows how bad it has been and how there is still a long way to go.

https://www.dcu.ie/science-and-health/news/2024/dec/study-identifies-hotspots-air-pollution-dublin

XT1200 · 06-03-2025 10:43AM

Is that you with more BS Eamon Ryan ?

Flinty997 · 06-03-2025 12:36PM

Even China isn't that backward…

https://youtu.be/nCZn0GSuLr0?si=K_nACf23RGZSMarE

cgcsb · 06-03-2025 03:22PM

It's worth noting that progress is being made in Ireland on climate, it's just glacial, same as everything else worth doing in this country. Too many blockers in the form of lawyers and nimbys.

The 2030 targets were pure fiction anyway and everyone knew it, just look at DCC, their project to build a cycle lane on the quays started 15 years ago and now all we have is a handful of disconnected 'temporary' schemes and a few million euros worth of consultant reports. Nobody actually wants to implement anything because it'll inconvenience someone or make someone indignant.

Just look at the Clongriffin cbc project. 1 year delay because 1 woman doesn't like the idea of having 1 bus stop outside her house, on public property.

A cycle lane on sandymount strand has been in the court 5 years because the legal profession can't admit that one of them made a totally wrong/corrupt decision.

It's the way we like it here. Don't expect it to change and do not expect the media to interrogate such failures.

ArcadiaJunction · 06-03-2025 05:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123229939#Comment_123229939

Oh dear how very 'Fhar Roight' of you. You'll demanding an overhaul of Goverment spending like Adolf Musk.

Joking aside you are correct. This country is completely psychotic when you stand back and consider the level of psychopthic gombeens running it into the ground. It is why I am convinced we'll never see the Dublin Metro. I hate to say this I really do. But here we are.

gjim · 07-03-2025 04:01PM

Beating ourselves back to the Stone Age.

Becoming energy self-sufficient by using modern cheaper energy generation and storage technology, living in draft-fee and warm houses, having cleaner air to breathe in homes and cities, having more free time because new PT means we don't have to sit in cars for hours a day just to get to work/school/etc.

Yeah sounds exactly like a Stone Age existence alright 🙄

The fact that we might improve our environment, the energy security of the country, living quality, increase leisure time, etc. while at the same time NOT contributing to the destruction of the planet. What a terrible idea….

end of the road · 08-03-2025 01:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123241675#Comment_123241675

exactly, there is nothing on that list that isn't a huge benefit and positive.

but yeah, why bother with any of that and instead continue as is with a strategy that is going to get hugely expensive and destructive for us as time goes on.

hugely expensive energy bills, hugely expensive transport costs and ultimately a tanked economy for real.

not to mention heavier and heavier climate fines which if we don't pay we won't get any further european investment until we do being the most likely outcome.

that's what the people opposed to the non-virtue signalling, factual necessary and unavoidable climate measures want for us.

i say no thanks, jog on.

€26bn in Climate Fines - why can't Ireland start All Ireland Rail plan, cycle lanes, paths etc NOW?

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