Clipless Shoes - Worth it for shorter distances?

jasonb · 02-03-2025 06:21PM #1

Hi all… So, I am a basic enough cyclist, I have a road bike that I use for Sprint Triathlons (750m swim, 20km cycle, 5km run). My bike has pedals that can clip onto shoes on one side, or are "flat" on the other.

I have clipless shoes and I use them for training and on race day. I am in no way fast, I would probably do 20km on the bike in about 44/45 mins. I was wondering recently, how much of an advantage do the clipless shoes give me over 20km, at that pace? And is it enough to make up for the time in transition where I have to take them off and put on my runners (say 30-40 seconds). Just wondering if they are pointless at the level I am cycling at, and I should just stick to runners and the flat pedals? Would like to hear the thoughts of far more experiences cyclists, thanks!

saccades · 02-03-2025 06:32PM

Clipless are great for a sprint on a road bike or rough stuff/sprint on a mtb.

After that the gains fairly minimal tbh.

Ceepo · 02-03-2025 08:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058398911/clipless-shoes-worth-it-for-shorter-distances

There's certainly a benefit to wearing clipless shoes for more than just doing a sprint, if there wasn't no cyclists would use them. If you think of the foam cushion on a pair of runners, and consider you have to push down on the pedals, some of that force is being absorbed in the cushion of the runners.

Now for your question around you using them in a sprint triathlon, I would say yes in general, as for time saving, this would depend on how quickly you can get them on and off again and as you say put your runners on again. If you practice taking your foot out and dismounting with you shoes on the bike. That along with elastic laces in your runners, then you can save yourself a nice bit of time. You also have to consider that if you put them on in T1 you will have to run with them on, depending on the length of the transition area to the mount line, this could end up costing you time.

As with a lot of these things, the answer is "it depends" 🤣.

Id also recommend to practice your transitions. The amount of time that is lost transition can be huge,

CramCycle · 02-03-2025 08:25PM

For me the advantage is effort, comfort, transmission. On paper the gains are technically minimal on a flat course but in my mind, your feet are always held to the right position, no losses through adjustments, misplacement, etc and I think from an athletes POV, these are the gains that matter most in a flat TT.

jasonb · 02-03-2025 08:42PM

Thanks for your replies!

Yep, I definitely practice transitions, as there is time to be saved there. I use elastic laces on my runners, anything to shave a few seconds off. It's a tough goal for me, but I would love to one day do a sub 1:30 Sprint Tri, and clearly the best way of achieving that aim is to train well and get faster, especially on the bike, which is the longest segment of the Tri, and therefore the one I can save the most time on (in theory).

But, in looking to save any time possible, I'm wondering if the time that I save in theory from using clipless pedals during the 20km cycle is lost when I have to take them off after the cycle to put on the runners. If I was cycling in the runners, I would literally park the bike, take off my helmet and run (well, try to run, but that's another story!).

I think it depends a bit on conditions, if it's wet at all I'd be going with clipless to keep my feet on the pedals and make sure they don't slip off. It's hard to test to see how much slower I am using runners instead of clipless, as there are too many variables (weather, how tired I am that day, etc. etc.). The saving during T2 if I am already in my runners during the cycle is obvious to see, but the saving during the cycle because I am using clipless is a lot harder to quantify. More than likely if I were doing longer cycles, the clipless advantage would be bigger as I'm doing 40km or more, but for 20km I just don't know if the advantages are there?

Ceepo · 02-03-2025 09:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123225750#Comment_123225750

I totally understand where you're coming from and as you say it very hard to qualify any time saving on the bike leg. But consider this question, what do the tip lads do, and ask yourself why do they do that.

As someone who done a lot of triathlons and duathlons where the runner's v's cycling shoes change question come into the equation more as you're changing twice, going from runners to cycling shoes and back to runner's, I can tell you I would always have used cycling shoes on the bike leg, now some of that might have been cycology (see what I done there)🤣.

Another thing that certainly will make you faster on the bike, Shaved legs, is worth about 1 sec per km, which is similar to wearing a more aero helmet, something like the Specialized Evade, it doesn't have to a full on teardrop one. Them 2 thing alone could be worth 40 seconds, which you could argue isn't much difference, but when you consider the effort you would have to make to get 40 seconds quicker on the bike or run.

jasonb · 02-03-2025 10:04PM

I would gladly take 40 seconds! My best ever Sprint Tri is 1:32.5, so I need to find 2.5 mins somewhere, and for everything to go perfectly on the day too. There are some things that help, smaller races tend to have smaller distances in Transition, so time can be saved there. One Tri I did last year had the swim in an outdoor heated pool, which means no wet suit, which means not changing out of one in T1, which means more time to be saved! :)

Not sure about shaving my legs (they're not that hairy anyhow!), but I finally have a Tri Suit this year (was using Tri shorts and a running top before then) and I do plan to get a better helmet, I have my eye on the Abus Gamechanger (the first one, which is "relatively" cheaper now as they have brought out a newer version). As my other thread shows, I'm also replacing my tyres as well.

Obviously, the main thing is getting fitter/faster, and training will help with that, but I'm not getting any younger, and don't have hours and hours to devote to training every week, so any other gains I can make I'll will try!

Ceepo · 02-03-2025 10:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123225988#Comment_123225988

Anywhere you can get free speed, you should take it. 😉. Of course it doesn't replace hard work, but it certainly helps

Wishbone Ash · 02-03-2025 10:59PM

You can get tri specific cycling shoes which are designed to be fitted/removed a few seconds faster that normal cycling shoes. The have only one large strap which fastens inwards as opposed to outwards. They also have a much larger finger loop at the rear.

(BTW - I know nothing about triathlon. The only reason I know about the shoes is that I bought a pair years ago not knowing the difference. It was only when a few others, seeing the shoes, and asked me was I into Tri, that I realised. That said, I got about 10 years of normal road riding out of them.)

Macy0161 · 03-03-2025 11:59AM

Whatever about shaved legs being more aero, definitely helps in the fourth discipline of transition - shaved legs and lots of body glide on the legs (and shoulders and arms) get the wetsuit off much quicker.

fwiw I always felt that cycling shows made enough of a difference - I had cheap tri shoes - never really nailed the flying mount with them already clipped in. You can run bare feet if it's a long transition. The other thing is that your feet dry in the cycling shoes rather than putting on the runners with wet feet.

Ceepo · 03-03-2025 12:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123227063#Comment_123227063

Id agree with the body glide type of product to help reduce chaff and also help to get the wetsuit of quicker

There have been a lot of wind tunnel testing on shaved legs. I know Specialized done a huge amount of various testing on a rage of different things on and off the bike. Everything from helmets, water bottle, pedals and shave legs and arms. Legs had a bigger difference over arms as with a lot of TT bike position the arms were straight, however we see over the past few years more and more are taking the "prey mantis" position as this reduces frontal drag .

Good clip here with Lionel Sanders

https://youtu.be/5M3Z0ClhNsU?si=wCRvIwB8TDcqzCwg

jasonb · 03-03-2025 02:37PM

Interesting, there is so much research into this!

I should clarify, I don't have my shoes attached to my pedals beforehand. The shoes themselves would be too hard to put on if I did have them attached that way, the opening in the shoe isn't big enough (I am guessing they are cycling shoes, not Tri shoes). At the moment I basically get to T1, take off the wetsuit etc. (though it's half off during the run to T1) and I put on my shoes and then run with them and the bike to the mount point. The shoes are ok to run in, they are the "hyrbrid" ones (or whatever you call them, I am no expert!) that have a bit of a sole as well, so you can run in them ok. You tighten them by twisting a small "wheel" on them, and loosen them by pulling the "wheel" upwards.

They aren't that hard to put on, or take off for that matter, and the elastic laced runners are pretty easy to put on too. But, as has been said, any time saved is good!

MojoMaker · 03-03-2025 08:16PM

Leave them on the bike when you roll into T2 and just open the big velcro strap and slide your feet out and rest them on the top of the shoe. Then as you approach the dismount line just swing the leg over the saddle and hop off as you're coming to a stop.

Forget classic cycling shoes for a triathlon for starters!! Boa lace systems will cost you time and patience.

jasonb · 03-03-2025 09:57PM

Yeah, I don't have Tri shoes, so that's an obvious upgrade, just have to decide if the money is worth the advantage at the level I am "racing" at!

Ceepo · 03-03-2025 10:15PM

Its always worth it,

Another thing that's absolutely worth is… a new bike 😉😉🤣🤣

jasonb · 03-03-2025 10:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123228918#Comment_123228918

Ha! Yeah, well, that's one way of saving time, but also losing money! A new bike might happen at some point, but even then it's not going to be much better than the one I currently have, I just don't have the money for a bike that costs a few thousand! :)

Ceepo · 03-03-2025 11:01PM

Was only joking about the bike really. 😉.

Make sure to get plenty of practice for mounting and dismounting as it can save a lot of time. As can being more efficient in transition. Best of luck with your training and no doubt you be dropping the time down throughout the year.

jasonb · 03-03-2025 11:20PM

Thanks a lot! It's my 3rd year of Sprint Tris, and I think I might have hit my peak to be honest, but would love to get one sub 1:30 Tri at some stage. It will really be a case of everything just coming together on the day…

Ceepo · 03-03-2025 11:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123229153#Comment_123229153

I certainly wouldn't say you reached a peak after 3 years, but of course this would be better determined by the volume of training you can do and also the quality and structure of same. Another thing to keep in mind, you could research the races that might suit your strengths and weaknesses. If you weak point is swimming then races like Carrick , Carlow and Fermoy are good choices as the swim leg is a bit more favourable to weaker swimmers.

jasonb · 04-03-2025 12:07AM

Yeah, better equipment etc. is one thing, but really it's about the training. I can only manage one swim, one run and one cycle a week (and that's a good week) so I don't have a lot of scope. I definitely need to train better so that I can get faster (on the bike especially) without being so tired at the end of that leg that I can't then do ok on the run.

I think my best 20km is 43.5 min, I really need to get that closer to 40mins if I am to ever threaten 1:30 for a sprint. My swim time is usually around 16-17 mins. And my run usually around 27- 28ish, depending on how tired I am.

Picking a good race, with small transition zones etc. will help save some time, but I need to find better training to really make a difference and have a chance of cracking 1:30!

I tend to do 3 Sprints a year, so I should have three attempts at it this summer!

Ceepo · 04-03-2025 10:05AM

Certainly equipment helps, but as you say, it's the training that the bigger gains are made. And to be honest it's hard to make gains when you can only do one session per week in each discipline. That said it would all depend on what you do in each session and how you structure them. Doing some interval work certainly would help. Example would be 8/10 reps of 3 mins at rpe 8/10 with 90 sec recovery. You should also do a few brick runs were you practice running off the bike, so take the above as a bike session, then run the 1st 1k at race pace before continuing to do a further 2k cool down. Only a small example of how you can progress. 😉

oinkely · 04-03-2025 10:56AM

good stuff jasonb. Sounds like the shoes are not holding you back to be honest, more in need of practicing with what you have.

IMO cycling in runners is the pits - they are too soft and have too much flex to be comfortable if you are trying to get a bit of power down.

Squeezing a bit more training in will make a much bigger difference. You could easily take a few minutes each off the bike and run with a bit more training. A session a week of bike intervals (maybe 10 to 15k total) followed immediately by a short run (maybe 3k) would help with all areas. Especially the T2 practice and running fast off the bike with jelly legs.

I don't do many tris at this stage so am not looking to squeeze every second out so I usually go for bike shoes on the ground beside the bike if its a grass transition area or a short tarmac one. I pull them on in seconds after ditching the wetsuit. Helps a bit that they are tri specific ones and have one large strap. Then run through transition with them on, flying leap onto bike hoping not to squash the crown jewels in the process. Returning for T2 i take my feet out of the shoes in the last few hundred metres and coast in with feet on top of shoes still attached to pedals ready to hit the ground running at the dismount line.

Practising the two transitions on their own would nearly get you your few minutes. But an extra session or two during the week should easily produce the results for you.

No idea of your situation but times that work for me around the kids and work are - up early before anyone else is awake and out for a run. Lunchtime, especially when in the office - bring a packed lunch and eat it at the desk afterwards. When the kids are at training or matches for a sport that i don't coach i always bring the running gear and a can of deodorant. Last thing at night after everyone else is in bed i often squeeze in a quick run if I haven't managed anything else in the day.

I find it a lot harder to get bike time in at the moment but when family life allows I try to cycle to work which gives me 25km each way once or twice a week, in generally much the same time as driving. This has been near impossible in the last few months so bike is definitely going to be slower this year.

jasonb · 04-03-2025 11:48AM

Thanks for your comments… Yeah, getting the time is tough, and also making the most of the time. I have done some Brick sessions, in fact Sunday was my first one of this year. I tend to do a Brick as a "race" (i.e. a 20k cycle followed by a 5k run) but hadn't thought of maybe doing intervals on the bike as part of my brick. A second session a week on the bike would be great, but I just can't really squeeze it in (though I might be able to do that a little when the evenings get brighter).

As a general question, if I can only do one run and one cycle a week, does it make sense to make those sessions intervals? In other words, do I get more "training bang for buck" by doing intervals, rather than just doing a straight 20k cycle or a straight 5k run? And would be make sense, if only cycling once a week, to always make that a brick session too? Basically I need to try to maximise my training.

Ceepo · 04-03-2025 12:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123230091#Comment_123230091

There is basically no right or wrong. It's more about what suits you best. If it was me I would break the workouts into intervals rather than just doing a brick as a race. I'd be confident enough to say this would help you a lot more. I wouldn't suggest to do all your sessions as intervals , but you could alternate weeks. Brick one week run intervals the next etc. I think good bang for buck plan would be, one swim one brick, where you change the distance you run off the bike as time permits and one easy long is bike. This way you are covering some of the specific bases that's needed, some harder work and some easy endurance work. Most people who have little time to train usually train to hard, when sometimes there's more benefits to going easy some days. (It builds mitochondrial, the power source to cellar function). Brick session like the one I suggested earlier can change the duration of the bike interval to 5 x 5 mins or 3 x 10 mins, and the run part to 1k at race pace off the bike 1k easy 1k race pace and 2k easy cool down. It's always hard when you're time crunched, but another alternative is to get a turbo trainer and do some of the training on the bike at home. Hope this is food for though

MojoMaker · 04-03-2025 08:13PM

Can you cycle to work Jason?

Can you join one of those useless non-participatory meetings we all have while on your turbo trainer at home?

If I was time pressed and could only add two sessions in a busy week I'd go for one swim and one bike. Don't worry about running, unless you need it to keep the weight in check.

If you can't quite get two additional sessions in, I would prioritise a swim over a bike. Your bike time, relative to your swim time, is better. But if you get a turbo, then I would flip and sneak as many 30 min sessions into your week while nothing else is planned but you "can't leave home" etc.

jasonb · 04-03-2025 09:43PM

Once again, thanks a lot for all the advice! I feel like I keep finding things to say no to, sorry!

I was thinking about work, it's 12.5km there and another 12:5km back. With school runs, pick ups etc. I might be able to cycle to work on an occasional Monday, but that would be about it. I don't have a Turbo Trainer either, I can look into it, but we're back into bang for buck territory unfortunately.

I am interested in you comment @MojoMaker about my bike time being relatively better than my swim time, as I always thought it was the other way around. I had a look at the times from last year's Sprint in Athy, using "good" times for me of 16:30 for swimming, and 43:30 for cycling. With those times, I'd be 219th out of 546 for Swimming, but 341 out of 546 for Cycling, hence me thinking the bike was more important to focus on! It's also the best chance to make a bigger reduction, 5% quicker on the bike is worth more than 5% quicker in the swim, you know?

I was thinking I might try to cycle on Wednesday evenings (instead of running) and then at the weekend I can cycle/brick. That way I get two goes on the bike, weather permitting. I could do intervals on Wednesday evenings. That will of course get easier to do once the clocks change, weather permitting. And on some weekends I can not do a brick and do a longer easier cycle instead. What would be a good distance for that, considering the Sprint Cycle is 20km?

Thanks for all the help, I really do appreciate it.

MojoMaker · 04-03-2025 10:14PM

Have a think about how you feel coming out of the water - if you're a better/fitter swimmer you're getting on the bike in better shape.

If you're a weaker swimmer, and your 17 min 750m is hurting, you're heading into T1 wrecked (and panicky) and when you get on the bike, odds are you're feeling wrecked/stressed.

I say all that above as someone who likes swimming though 😅

jasonb · 04-03-2025 10:16PM

Yeah… That is a good point. I'm actually not too bad coming out of the water, I think. I do find myself, especially last year, pretty wrecked when I get off the bike, and my running suffers because of it.

Tri really is such an interesting sport, so many different aspects to work on and improve, even with just the Sprint distance.

jasonb · 05-03-2025 09:11PM

A quick update, as I have just posted on my tyres thread, the new Continental 5000 GPs (with TPU tubes) made a big difference, and I just did my "usual" 20km route in 41.5 min. I have done that route 4 times this last month, in 49.5 mins (first cycle since October), then 48.5 min, then 46 min 10 days ago and now 41.5 min.

I had to check, and that's the second fastest 20km I have ever done, my fastest being 41.3 mins back in late 2022, after I had been training for a Galway-Dublin Charity Cycle and was the most "bike fit" I have ever been. So clearly the tyres/tubes really made a difference, and I could feel the difference as I cycled, and that encouraged me to go faster.

Now, there's a difference between cycling 20km in 41.5 and cycling 20km in 41.5 after a swim in a Tri (my fastest ever Tri cycle is 43.5) but if I am going to break the 1:30 mark, doing the cycle in around 41 will get me there. As it's only March, and I have months of training ahead of me (my first Tri this year will be the Athy Sprint) I am feeling a bit more confident. The mid-week cycle worked ok too, so I think I can manage two cycles a week, weather permitting. I'll do some of them as intervals, some as a brick, and some longer ones too if I can. That should hopefully get me to a decent level of bike fitness. If I can get under 40min for a 20km, then that should give me a chance at a 1:30 Tri, hopefully! :)

MojoMaker · 06-03-2025 10:47AM

Good job.

Clipless Shoes - Worth it for shorter distances?

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