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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,661 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Would disagree on that. I think Doris has a more complete game than Heaslip did. He does the grunt work, but has maintained an effective carrying game. I also think he's a better leader, he's frequently the best player on the pitch, in games full of star players



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,973 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Personally I think Doris is the better all rounder compared to Heaslip.

    I remember plenty though. The 2009-2016 Heaslip was exceptional.

    It was crime against rugby that the 2011 RWC and 2012 6N sides were so limited by the coaching team.

    -Murray, Sexton; Healy, Best, Ross; DOC, POC; Ferris, SOB, Heaslip and 18.D.Ryan 19.Leamy/POM 20. Reddan-

    I'll leave you with my favorite stat about you:

    Since your 6N debut in 2012 Ireland have won The Championship more often than not when you have started at least 4 of the games.

    '24 Win The Championship - 4 Starts

    '23 Win The Grand Slam - 4 Starts

    '22 No win - 2 starts

    '21 No win - 1 start

    '20 No win - 2 starts

    '19 No win - 5 starts (wheels coming off)

    '18 Win The Grand Slam - 5 Starts

    '17 No win - 1 start

    '16 No win - 0 starts

    '15 Win Championship - 4 Starts

    '14 Win Championship - 4 Starts

    '13 No win - 5 starts (wheels had come off)

    '12 No win - 1 start

    2025 2 Starts and Counting…..

    Untitled Image


  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,367 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    interesting blue sky thread about fly halves tackling in this years 6 nations competition:

    https://bsky.app/profile/rugbykino.bsky.social/post/3ljawhatmn223

    essentially the conclusion is:

    So, looking at the flyhalves who are more notably first up tacklers (70-80%), Prendergast doesn't come out of this too badly. Big overall tackle attempt numbers, with a success rate in line with or better than those other 1st up tacklers (Russell, Jalibert).

    The real outlier though, is Fin Smith. Similar tackle attempts to Prendergast, similarly likely to be the 1st up tackler, similar high low split, but with an 82.4% success rate. So, Prendergast definitely has a defensive benchmark to aspire to, but he's not quite at the bottom of the pile.

    what the statsd really DO show however is the outright lies that some quarters are trying to make out that hes been hidden in defense and "protected" by other players.

    He is certainly been targeted by the opposition, with him being the 1st tackler 72% of the time (3rd behind russell and Jailbert, who has much less minutes played) but Prendergast tackle success rate is better than Russells, who is most peoples choice for leading the lions at 10 this year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,751 ✭✭✭ersatz


    It's easy to forget how good Dan Leavy was considering he was forced to retire at 25. If he'd kept progressing god knows the level he would have reached. He really did have it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,212 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Fair enough, memory is hazy enough on it, my memory of the backrow around them was when Stander moved to 8 from 6 after Heaslip’s retirement that it didn’t function as well in general.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,661 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Stander was a very limited player in comparison.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,054 ✭✭✭johnh6767




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,661 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Nah, he was a pretty straightforward player. Took ball, looked for contact



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    Highly disagree. He might have been a bit more limited in attack than Heaslip but Stander was very good at the breakdown in attack and defence.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,993 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Both Heaslip and Stander were great players.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 593 ✭✭✭exiledawaynothere


    reading the contest above, it comes to mind that we have produced (Stander was raw coming to Munster) some excellent, resilient and impactful number 8’s in the professional age - Conan, Doris, Heaslip, Stander and Foley. Going back we would have had Duggan, Goodall, Robinson but we have been well served over the last two decades. Something to celebrate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Sorry now. You can't include Stander in that group of 8's "we" have produced. That's like saying we have produced 2 great wingers in lowe and hansen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 593 ✭✭✭exiledawaynothere


    fair point. I did agonize over that for about 20 seconds. I just wanted to avoid provincial stuff around Lowe, JGP, Bealham, the Bronx Brawler, Aki etc…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 504 ✭✭✭The Macho Man


    Just watched the Ulster match, each time I see McNabney he just gets better and better, some performance tonight. Really one to watch, would love to see him kick on beyond a development player and get into an Irish jersey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭bigmac86


    McNabney consistently plays well enough to be a starter although they might manage his minutes due to age. If he's good in the lineout I wonder if we'll see more of him at 6 next season with Augustus probably arriving as our starting 8. McCann/Timoney the utility backrow options



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,070 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    There is a nice interview with BOD in today's Independent. Actually worth a read. Although it seems research is not a priority. It claims Brian's hat trick against France all those years ago was the last time an Irish player did so in the 6 nations. Craig Gilroy did it in 15 minutes against Italy (and was dropped from the team. He must have scored the tries in the wrong way for Joe..😉) Gilroy also scored a hat trick against Fiji. Brian was the greatest player of the modern era, on a par with the wonder that was Mike Gibson of the previous generation. I hope to see another stellar player in green among the many who are already there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    He was certainly jumping in the lineout last night. I think he will be a 6. With Augustus coming to Ulster and Ireland being well stacked at 8 with Doris and Conan with Gleeson and Culhane coming through then 6 makes more sense for him IMO. That said his off the back of the scrum last night in the 1st half was very impressive!

    If he makes the summer tour and has a big season next year then he could become a a real live option in the next 12 months or so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Madeoface


    Felix Jones gone back to SA…..would have been a useful addition anywhere in the IRFU setup, especially down south.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    Maybe he doesn't want to work in the IRFU system?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭50HX


    Agree & maybe he's not a fit for everyone.

    Whatever happened in England he has blotted his CV a bit imo.

    Whatever about the circumstances in leaving but to go straight back to Rassie…did nobody else see a role for him or he didn't fancy anything else.

    Major major stats nerd by all accounts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 152 ✭✭RAKM


    Did Rob Henderson score a hattrick against Scotland since BOD?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    FeliX JONES IS still a young man, a young coach. Whatever happened in England will not blot His copy book at all. England has been a basket case since the arrival of Eddie Jones. A constant churn of coaches and a lot of rumours of an unhappy camp a lot of the time.

    When Lancaster came to Leinster, he spoke about Sexton contacting him to ask if he could do anything to help him say yes to the Offer from Leinster. The players and people within the sport know the real story. Sexton played England 5 times when Lancaster was their coach, and lost on 4 occasions. He knew Lancaster was a good coach. Those within the Ireland camp knew through analysis that England were very well coached.

    RWC 2015 wasn't a true reflection of Lancaster as a coach.

    Andrew Conway was in with Joe Molloy on Friday and he spoke about Jones and his work ethic. I think Felix Jones has a career plan for himself and He isn't going to take a job he doesn't feel he is ready for is the impression I get from the bits of information that is out there about him.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,367 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    he did against Italy the following year.

    Also, cj stander scored a hat trick in the same game against Italy that same game that Craig gilroy.

    In fact there were 4 hat tricks in the competition since BODs against France, as BOD himself scored another hat trick, against Scotland in 2002



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭50HX


    Exactly....he is a young man & young coach who wanted out after 7 months into a contract....only those in the know can judge if it will blot his CV or not.

    He has hit a bump on his career plan I think if he has gone straight back to Rassie again...maybe it was all a Rassie plan😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    Borthwick was allegedly unhappy that Jones spent time in Ireland which is a bizarre thing to get hung up on. Also there was some other upheaval in the England backroom in the lead up to his departure and it's been a recurring theme in England for a decade now which is hardly conducive to a healthy working environment.

    I'd say Jones leaving as a result would be seen by peers as a positive move on his behalf to take himself out of that. Borthwick seems to have a disciplinarian streak by all accounts and it's not a well liked approach. Some of his interviews redently have been very abrupt too. Evasive.

    Going back to SA, don't see that as a negative either. Jones will spend a lot of time in Ireland anyway and Rassie and Co don't seem to have the same insecurities that Borthwick does with that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,973 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Two of the greats of the game. Only 20 years separating the end-start of their eras

    25 years since the seismic win in Paris and that BOD hat-trick.

    Irelands first win v France in 18 games.

    Which reminds me of this great quote:

    "Nobody beats Vitas Gerulaitis 17 times in a row" - Vitas Gerulaitis after ending losing streak to Jimmy Connors in 1980.

    I didn't see indo interview but I did see this.

    https://www.rte.ie/sport/six-nations/2025/0226/1499127-some-irish-fans-need-to-take-hard-look-at-themselves/

    Brian O'Driscoll is in no doubt that arrogance is creeping into the Irish rugby fanbase and that many supporters need "to have a good hard look" at themselves.

    "For sure, not like maybe," replied O’Driscoll when asked about Irish arrogance.

    ‘For sure’ Ughh (Irish people should not speak like Californians)

    "I saw the article in the Telegraph the other day [asking] are Ireland a hard team to enjoy? Are they getting ahead of themselves?”

    "I would say, the supporters, yes, the team, absolutely not."

    Now I generally like BOD but attacking the supporters? FU! Over in his ITV studio and referring to the Telegraph and all! Cop on.

    Anyway he’s another one on the very station (that shall remain nameless) that spew the sh!te hes talking about. The very same station that pays him. Child.

    It's not the supporters. Its not just the lads going for plastic pints (which I dislike). We know the main issue is the corporate ticket shower that go to Lansdowne road.

    O’Driscoll won’t call them out of course.

    If you want to have a crack. Do it properly and speak the truth.

    But at home they have a few drinks and probably the prawn sandwiches, and they don't realise what's going on out on the pitch.

    I don't think some of the people who come to Old Trafford can spell football, never mind understand it.

    20 years since The Benoit Baby Butt

    Penalty. No YC. 4 week ban

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x229ml

    Love French commentators reaction!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    CJ scored a hat trick in that same italy game too I think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    Doesnt BOD realize the sort of thing he's accusing Irish fans of doing is the same thing he and his numbskull friends in the media have been doing in regard to France for an eternity? The irony is off the charts.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    Hansen and McCarthy have signed CC upto 2027 and 2028 respectively.



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