Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

The thing is, the club being a mess does not mean that Amorim is doing a good job. And his poor performance keeps getting handwaved away by this narrative that he needs to be backed no matter what.

We hear this so often. "We can't keep changing managers".

Whats more accurate is that we don't want to keep changing managers. But want it or not, the cold reality is that any manager needs to be assessed on performance, same as any new player should be. And if they aren't performing even to a basic level then that needs to be acknowledged.

We can't keep ignoring poor performance just because its a pain in the ass to have another failed manager.

But if you get the right profiles that can play in the right way - the formation becomes more consistent and the general performance levels can increase as well.

_________Onana

_____Yoro, MDL, Huijsen

Quenda_Ugart__Ederson__Dorgu

_______Bruno__Cunha

__________Delap

Probably someone else instead of Cunha, I don't know. Probably someone else for Ederson, Hackney maybe? Should be cheap… may not be near good enough.

But if we have CBs that are more comfortable firther up, you have a better presssing structure - huge difference
If you have Quensa and Dorgu either side you have more attacking ability, more speed, more intensity - huge difference.
If you have Cunha (or someone) that can take the ball and carry it - huge difference.
If you have a striker that can control the ball and actually offer a goal threat - huge difference.

Of course the problem then becomes what happens when Delap (as a ST example) is out and we go back to Hojlund. Or Cunha for Garnacho, or WB for Dalot, or and CM there for Mainoo, Collyer, Kone?

etc etc.

We could get a first choice 11 into a good place, but beyond that might still cause issue - and while I can hope that putting our more average players into a better function 10 or 11 will see better, we don't know. or if the better 11 will actually see us do better.

Because he was playing excellently as a RWB in a very good Sporting team under our current manager.

But given how you have ended your post you clearly have no interest in an actually discussion so I'll leave it there.

can't speak to the fan base. but for me, top 6 i'd be delighted with next season tbh.

Top 6 —> Top 4 —> Top 4 with a little cheecky peak at the title picture —> pushing for the title (i don't think i would ever say failing to win a title is a failure on its own, without context). That is the progression I expect, and diviation from that would point to a failure of multiple people in charge, imo.

However this season ends, my expectation is that next season we should be realistically competing for top 5. Not to say we get it, but we should be aiming for 65 points. I think that is a realistic target for a club who will (hopefully) have brought in 4 or 5 key players. If we don't get close to that, the manager should be under pressure.

I think it is also fair to expect to be able to point to a number of performances that show what the plan is, and what the future could be. We will likely be inconsisteny. we will likely see poor performances. But there has to be SOMETHING signficant to point to.

We finished 8th last season and won the FA Cup and a sizable portion of the fanbase were happy to stick with EtH and thought it was a disgrace that we would even think of sacking him. So if we get europe next seaosn, I think Amorim will earn the patience of enough to continue into season 3. But it can't be a 'finish 15th and fluke a cup win' qualification. if we DESERVE european football there will be enough patience imo.

I don't think there is a world in which a repeat of this season would be accepted by anyone for any reason - even if we signed no one I would expect to see more from the players retained, plus youth players, than we have seen this season.

The spurs game is an example of that - if we had goalscorers we'd have won, imo.

but Leicster and Fulham would not be examples imo - the performance was rubbish in both, especially the fulham game - we created nothing. Now, I also think vs Fulham we failed to capitalise on good positions to create something, but it was still largely rubbish

Article is paywalled

From the article:

- The belief within, according to sources, is that it will take no fewer than three years to sort the mess out, and these are people who have already illustrated that they are in a hurry. Ratcliffe is 72.

Already there is noise. The well-publicised cuts have triggered a backlash among certain sections of the fanbase, although there is a silent element that believes the club needs the drastic surgery it is currently undergoing.

‘Jim and Ineos are delivering medicine,’ said another insider speaking on the condition of anonymity. ‘They see United as the poorly patient. They either act now or things get even worse. And the staff are reacting like anyone who takes medicine. It doesn’t taste nice. It makes you grimace. But you hope it works.’

Some of those who have left the building have a blunter view. At the outset, one declared that ‘this lot make the Glazers look like Saint Nick’.

- Mail Sport understands that widespread hikes are unlikely (ticket prices). The view is that United are hamstrung by their ageing stadium and the inability to cash in on visitors from overseas. The belief is that the situation will change when either a new-build or refurbished Old Trafford will vastly increase the range of corporate offerings. There is no appetite to penalise the Stretford End regulars and significant increases in that area would come as a surprise.

- Another area of improvement was also rapidly identified. More than 20 years after the birth of Moneyball, and the rise of analytics in sport, Ineos found United were stuck in the past. Emphasis was still placed more on the eye of the scout than on the data. Now, training sessions are monitored and screened to the laptops of a group stationed at the side of the pitch. Players are wired up with speeds, distances covered and tackles made all monitored. A similar process surrounds recruitment, with key attributes identified ahead of moves for potential new signings.

- While compliance with financial rules continues to bite, the hope is that the summer window will see the new manager take major steps towards overhauling his squad.

- It has been a difficult start in terms of results for Ruben Amorim to say the least but he has impressed in most other areas. The steadfast view is that, this time, they have made the right hire.

- There are similar feelings towards Berrada and Jason Wilcox, who came in as technical director. Wilcox is seen as a link between the playing squad and the powers that be. A person who has quickly gained the trust of all sides.

- The belief from within is that it will take at least a decade before we know if the bloodletting has been worthwhile. 

‘If United are in a new stadium and challenging for the title then you will see it as justified, as a success,’ said one insider. ‘But until then nothing is certain.

Unsure why you've flown off the handle there. He's played in 32 games this season, a lot as a winger and has 1 goal and 4 assists. I don't see how he solves any issues and would rather Dalot there every day of the week and 40m spent on someone who is not a potential project.

It's sad how there's no patience anymore.

I'm happy to support the manager and team, the league was always a write off this season. We are still in two winnable competitions, both are more important than the league THIS season. They both offer European football next season, one CL football.

The relegation stuff is still hysterical nonsense. I'm disappointed with how we're playing, how could you not be.

I'll liken it to changing your golf swing. Everything gets worse until it gets better and then all of a sudden it's a whole different reality. The temptation when it's not going well is to go back to the old way and something comfortable, but that way you just stay the same and never improve.

This club is not about stabilising for top 10/8/6 finishes, it's about winning titles.

We have to suffer now to reach those heights again imo. I want us to stick with the plan rather than rip it up again and maybe qualify for the odd CL now and then and make up the numbers when we do.

And before someone replies: "how do we know if it's the right plan?"

We don't, but we'll never know if it was, if we don't give it a chance to fail.

Lord give me some of that sweet patience…..

Very good post… some common sense at last. Some posters even using a crystal ball for next seasons results to have a go at the manager ffs…

Edit: warning applied to this post and due to subsequent posts made.

Also we're fortunate this season that the 18th and 19th placed PL teams have so few points at this stage of the season, that isn't always the case.

Tbf Mitch made a prediction last season about ETH staying on and was absolutely spot on.

We should be worried for next season, especially if we don't see improvements for the rest of the season.

Have you heard the term….”labouring the point “…. you need to change the record. You basically say the same thing in all of your posts.

You are the one who came in crying about people having the temerity to forecast ahead, I am allowed to respond to that.